Delta's upcoming order for wide-bodies

[Kev3188]

Any of you engine shop guys know what that means? Ah yes..... Better bid the CFM56 or CF34 shop. You guys in the 4000 and CF6 shop are screwed....... (note I will say that if the 4000 shop gets the USAF contract Delta will keep it around. CF6 is going to be a dead engine in 5-10 years.) 
Writing was already on the wall for the 2037 and 219 shops.

Don't worry; they'll just have a BBQ on the day of the leveling(s), and everything'll be okay...

(sarcasm, of course)

 

[WorldTraveler]

Interesting note that Delta is replacing 763's with higher passenger capacity A339's.
Someone on a different side made a very interesting observation. And goes with the rumour
of either an expanded EC cabin or the newly Delta trademark of Comfort+ cabin.  
3 or perhaps 4 class service would bring down the capacity of these a/c.

good point, Baba.

It is possible that even though Airbus says the 339 is capable of carrying more passengers due to interior mods, it is also possible that DL will use the new engine technology will bring down the CASM such that DL will use larger aircraft with fewer seats due to a premium economy section.

I'm still not sure it will dramatically decrease what is carried on the 339 relative to the 333 so the 339 will e a 275 plus size aircraft. the 764s might become 225 seat aircraft which isn't a huge jump from the 763s today.

If DL does add a premium economy cabin, it will be a way for DL to continue generation of new revenues and add a premium economy product ahead of other US carriers.


 

Don't worry; they'll just have a BBQ on the day of the leveling(s), and everything'll be okay...

(sarcasm, of course)

the 767s won't be just parked on one day... they will time out.

the chances of them leveling on any one day are slim.

and I would be surprised if DL intends to fully subcontract all that work.

 

[yoyodyne]

 
Sad for Boeing.
 
Why sad for Delta?

 
Because instead of using aircraft to fly people around, they have chosen winged garbage cans to haul stuff around...

 

[topDawg]

good point, Baba.

It is possible that even though Airbus says the 339 is capable of carrying more passengers due to interior mods, it is also possible that DL will use the new engine technology will bring down the CASM such that DL will use larger aircraft with fewer seats due to a premium economy section.

I'm still not sure it will dramatically decrease what is carried on the 339 relative to the 333 so the 339 will e a 275 plus size aircraft. the 764s might become 225 seat aircraft which isn't a huge jump from the 763s today.

If DL does add a premium economy cabin, it will be a way for DL to continue generation of new revenues and add a premium economy product ahead of other US carriers.


 

the 767s won't be just parked on one day... they will time out.

the chances of them leveling on any one day are slim.

and I would be surprised if DL intends to fully subcontract all that work.

Well the issue is now you have 65ish PW4000s gone in three years for sure. 
 
If you park make more 763s with Pratt it starts to become questionable if its economical to keep that engine in house. 
 
On the CF6 side, the CF6-80C2B6s are gone(13 engines I think) along with the CF6 on the 763 domestics (25ish engines) More than likely some CF6-80C2B6Fs will be leaving also. At what point does that line become uneconomical? 
 
Like i said, If Delta gets the PW4000 contract from the USAF tankers it wont matter because that 300+ engines. 
 
It is, in theory, possible that Delta is going to set up a JV with Rolls(the only thing possible now if they signed a TotalCare deal) but why they wouldn't announce that now I do not know. (especially with the MEM cuts. Why not try and cover that up with good news?)  
 

Don't worry; they'll just have a BBQ on the day of the leveling(s), and everything'll be okay...

(sarcasm, of course)

You know whats funny, We didn't get a cover story, an excuse or anything from WT. all we get is "and I would be surprised if DL intends to fully subcontract all that work." 
 
 
Now we know that WT can say Delta did(or might be doing) something negative even in WTs eyes. Maybe he does have a heart after all......... 

 

[topDawg]

Interesting note that Delta is replacing 763's with higher passenger capacity A339's.
Someone on a different side made a very interesting observation. And goes with the rumour
of either an expanded EC cabin or the newly Delta trademark of Comfort+ cabin.  
3 or perhaps 4 class service would bring down the capacity of these a/c.

rumors are running that its exactly what is happening. 
That would cause the 764s lose some capacity and be able to come close to replacing the 763s. 
 
all Delta really needs right now is a plane that can do routes like ATL-GIG in the slow season. A route like ATL-DUS that is always a 763 wont change, its the routes that change between 764 and 763 in the on/off season that would get stepped up to a 764/333(or 339) change. Lower density due to a true Y+ would make that very possible.  

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL has used the 764 to S. America year round.

the 764 has a better CASM than the 763 and would even if it were converted to include a 225-230 seat premium economy config.

DL is going to have some engines being pulled from service with ANY fleet replacement.

The new Rolls engines will not need overhauls for years from now. We all want answers but it isn't clear at all what DL will do.

I want as much work done by DL as possible. I hope DL has negotiated a deal for DL to bring that work inhouse.

If DL had split the order between Airbus and Boeing it might have been even harder for that to take place.

we'll see. but it is more than premature to speculate what might take place - or that there won't be a number of 767s in service for a long time to come.

 

[traderjake]

 
Because instead of using aircraft to fly people around, they have chosen winged garbage cans to haul stuff around...

 
Winged garbage can, you mean the 737 that the roof peels off or the rudder flips the airplane upside down? 
 
Got it, you too lazy to learn anything new
 
Maybe Delta should bring back the DC 9, they last a long time.

 

[eolesen]

If DL does add a premium economy cabin, it will be a way for DL to continue generation of new revenues and add a premium economy product ahead of other US carriers.

I'd expect to see at least one carrier go with a proper premium economy cabin, and AA is pretty far down the path with the way they've rolled out MCE on the 773's.

That said, I have to wonder if premium economy is more cannibalistic on J revenues than it is at generating incremental revenue. My personal experiences in P were all cases where I could have flown in J but chose P for budgetary reasons.

I also have to question how well that fits in with JV and alliance partners...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'd expect to see at least one carrier go with a proper premium economy cabin, and AA is pretty far down the path with the way they've rolled out MCE on the 773's.

That said, I have to wonder if premium economy is more cannibalistic on J revenues than it is at generating incremental revenue. My personal experiences in P were all cases where I could have flown in J but chose P for budgetary reasons.

I also have to question how well that fits in with JV and alliance partners...

uh, MCE is NOT a premium economy product.

a premium economy product is likely a sellup to coach and also a place to put economy upgrades, leaving business class more and more for those who pay.

since more int'l carriers have them than don't, it fits well.

 

[BABABOOY]

BE/Comfort+/Economy Comfort/Economy   would make sense.  3 "cabins" with 4 products.

 

[eolesen]

uh, MCE is NOT a premium economy product.

a premium economy product is likely a sellup to coach and also a place to put economy upgrades, leaving business class more and more for those who pay.

since more int'l carriers have them than don't, it fits well.

Well aware that MCE and Y+ aren't a true P product when compared to the seating offered by the likes of QF and BA in their P cabin, but by having it in its own zone on the 773, AA could easily do a hybrid with an upgraded food offering and not have it cause confusion for customers.

I'm not familiar enough with UA's widebody configs to say it's more difficult for them to pull off, but last time I flew on them there wasn't a physical barrier between Y+ and Y.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL's economy comfort isn't a separate cabin or seat width... just more pitch.

baba can say specifically what the service differences are but I have had different products offered in EC that aren't offered in the rest of the main cabin.

the internet rumor is that a DL premium economy int'l seat would be a similar if not identical seat to domestic first and probably more in line with the current Virgin America type seat. Given that DL has very intimate knowledge of what Virgin Atlantic is doing with a premium economy product, I suspect DL is basing DL's decision on what they have learned there.

 

[jcw]

Remember there is only on domestic carrier that can have P product and that is DL - so no sense debating the point

 

[eolesen]

DL's economy comfort isn't a separate cabin or seat width... just more pitch.
...
the internet rumor is that a DL premium economy int'l seat would be a similar if not identical seat to domestic first and probably more in line with the current Virgin America type seat. Given that DL has very intimate knowledge of what Virgin Atlantic is doing with a premium economy product, I suspect DL is basing DL's decision on what they have learned there.

Well, gee, from your own description, there is absolutely no difference in the hard product between EC, MCE, and Y+.

And yet you have to position DL as the differentiator? I doubt they learned anything from VS that they haven't been able to observe from AA and UA, in UA's case for many years. They probably knew the business case before the VS JV, and could never face having to match something the other two US global carriers were doing.

Offering an upgraded meal, free snack pack on BOB flights, or free liquor on international flights is where I see the US3 going for premium economy before they'd invest in a bespoke seat like others have done.

 

[BABABOOY]

, I suspect DL is basing DL's decision on what they have learned there.

 
it seems that Delta is basing many decisions on what Virgin Atlantic does. 
Transatlantic service has changed and will continue and I think we need to look
at Virgin to see what future enhancements are at Delta.