LiveInAHotel
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- Nov 5, 2003
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NO, NO, NO, NO and NO again!
If you want labor to survive vote Democrat!
If you want labor to survive vote Democrat!
Do You Want To Re- Elect Bush For Presendent!
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sentrido
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- Jan 8, 2004
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sentrido
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- Jan 8, 2004
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NWA/AMT says: “ Greetings, Colonel. I never said that he didn't, (although in fact he did no such thing); I said he didn't win the election. “
Greetings AMT. Your denials of reality will not change it. President Bush won the initial count in Florida. There is a process by law in Florida and it was followed. President Bush won the first recount. He won the second recount. He won the third recount. He won the Florida vote. He won the election as well.
NWA/AMT says: “ Considering that in the state of Florida the election commision hand picked by one Jeb Bush unilaterally and inexplicably decided to exclude thousands of voters (from predominantly Democratic districts,incidentally) from even voting, produced confusing and inconsistent procedures both for voting and for counting and handling of the ballots and then, when it became obvious the important role Florida would play did everything they could to impede the process; there was no election in Florida, therefore no election for him to win.â€
Governor Bush did nothing unilaterally nor did he ‘inexplicably’ decide to exclude anyone. If you have a problem with the ballots or the way the voting was conducted in the problem counties, you need to talk to the county leaders in said counties. Note: they were ALL run by democrats. Note 2: complaints of irregularities returned AGAIN in 2002 in the same counties due to continued incompetence by said democrats.
NWA/AMT says: “ I'm sorry if you weren't aware, Colonel, but even those of us who don't get to go to the "O CLub" after a days work are allowed to earn an education. “
Argumentum ad hominem.
NWA/AMT says: “As you may have forgotten, the Democrats only agreed to a partial recount as a compromise to expedite the recall process. Apparently they naively believed that an independent analysis of the facts would show the need for a full recount. Perhaps it would have but we will never know since the GOP-dominated Supreme Court chose not to take on the investigation. Remember Colonel, an act of omission is still an act and by that act they selected Bush.â€
No, the democrats did nothing to expedite the process. They didn’t ‘agree’ to anything. Their tactic was to pursue a partial recount in heavily democrat counties (with irregularities and problem ballots developed and administered by democrats!) to try to maximize their gains.
NWA/AMT says: “ Indeed, it never was. Only a partial count was used for a "final" count and the question of those voters illegally denied their right to vote was never addressed.â€
There was no partial count! Florida had the initial count. It had a recount. It had another recount. It had yet another recount. President Bush won them all.
NWA/AMT says: “Indeed? Luckily for our nation it isn't the end of the story just because one side says so. We condemn other nations for far less egregious election rigging than that which occurred in Florida in 2000, and those of us who have taken the time to investigate both sides of the issue will not only continue to question the legitimacy of the Bush 'election' but will be watching very closely in the future should such antics be attempted again.â€
It is the end of the story when one side says so all the time - if it is backed by THE LAW! Once again, any ‘rigging’ occurred in democrat-run counties. Go bring your complaints to them. That is where the antics occurred.
NWA/AMT says: “ Indeed, to the eternal shame of our nation, it did not. It was not allowed to.â€
Eternal shame? No. The law was followed and the election was certified. The shame was the Gore campaign and their attempts to bypass the law ultimately putting the country through tremendous angst. The other shame to which you should be particularly sensitive was the democrat campaign to throw out military votes. You can even read the democrat memo detailing the procedures they would use to throw out votes by our brave men and women serving in combat zones. You can read the news reports of the operatives ‘high-fiving’ each other as each vote is thrown out. That was the most GROSS example of voter denial and it is particularly egregious given the target was the military men and women serving in harms way defending our freedoms and way of life.
NWA/AMT says: “ Thanks for providing the pretty colored map thoughtfully provided by the Oak Park Republican Party. I'm sure we can all rely on them for a fair and impartial analysis, or, using the slogan of that "left wing media" outlet Fox News, should I say "Fair and Balanced"? I notice it contains many statistics but excludes one: Popular Vote Count. I wonder why?â€
Sorry you discount the map of the United States, with results by county, showing President Bush’s overwhelming support merely because of where it was generated. Perhaps the same map from this source would be better? It is that bastion of the right wing, the Sierra Times.
Non Right Wing Source for OVERWHELMING BUSH WIN
BTW, the exclusion of the popular vote is because it is irrelevant to the selection of the President. (reference: US Constitution)
NWA/AMT says: “ Unfortuately I am quite familiar with the antiquated Electoral College, a left over from the early days of our nation when travel was by horse and even county elections took days to decide.â€
Your familiarity doesn’t seem particularly deep. Read James Madison in Federalists No 10. It is very clear the Founders created a republic and not a direct democracy. We are not reduced to a simple will of the majority or plurality. There are checks and balances. Nothing is more alien to the US Constitution than saying American democracy is the unchecked, unfiltered will of the majority. We are not a one-person one vote when it comes to electing the President. The Senate is another example. The 33 million residents in California get the same number of Senate votes as the less than 1 million residents of Montana. If you wish to do away with the ‘antiquated’ electoral college, than to be consistent you would demand the dissolution of the Senate as well and just generate a single legislative chamber where majority rules.
NWA/AMT says: “I find it interesting that not once but twice in your post you took the time to question my knowledge of the Constitution, and by implication either my intelligence, patriotism or both. A schoolyard tactic we learned to avoid in speech-debate class in the ninth grade when I was in school.â€
Pointing out that someone is not familiar with the Constitution is not an attack on his intelligence nor his patriotism. Ignorance is not equivalent to intelligence. Not sure where you draw this from. I do appreciate the belittling comment about ninth grade speech class though.
NWA/AMT says: “ Before you wrap yourself in the flag in an attempt to lend extra weight to your arguments, it might do to remember that many served before you just as many will serve after you and not all were or will be Republicans. If they are then the nation they think they're fighting for will have ceased to exist.
When I did my fighting for our country it was not from an armored gun tub travelling at hundreds of knots per hour thousands of feet in the air but on the ground where I could see their eyes as I killed them. Does that make me more qualified to be an American than you? Should we compare medals? No, because it does not matter, nor does rank or any of the other trappings of status. We each get one vote, theoretically anyhow.â€
You are that which you accuse.
NWA/AMT says: “ I realize that you probably cannot understand how anyone could have the temerity to question what you apparently believe to be fact, but I believe it is not only my right but, more importantly, my responsibility to do so.â€
I can understand and it is not ‘apparently’ a fact. It is a fact. But you can bang your head against the wall all you want trying to deny it. And I will not question your right to do so. Just your judgement.
NWA/AMT says: “ An earlier version of the US Supreme Court, in 1943, heard a case involving the state of West Virginia requiring a loyalty oath from its citizens and stated, in part:
"...Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard." (West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnett, 1943)â€
Now you are really stretching it. Not sure where you think I am advocating you or anyone else take a loyalty oath. You’re perfectly welcome to your opinion and I am perfectly welcome to question it. You are perfectly welcome to deny facts and I am perfectly welcome to point them out. Although, in your and my case, we did take an oath to defend the (‘antiquated’) Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
NWA/AMT says: “ No, Colonel, based on the evidence I have seen, taken from both sides of the argument, I do not believe that George Bush was elected President of the United States. Like another 'left wing' Liberal I believe that:
"Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it." - Mark Twainâ€
Funny how your ubiquitous use of my rank appears to be used with sarcasm and not respect. Once again, you do not believe President Bush was elected and you think the Electoral College is ‘antiquated’. Well, NWA/AMT, he was and it isn’t.
NWA/AMT says: “ Thankfully I need neither your permission nor your approval to do so.
I never implied or stated you needed my permission nor my approval. It is amusing you feel the need to state it as such.
NWA/AMT says: “ Yet.â€
You imply there is an impending threat to your ability to register an opinion? Nice touch.
A10Pilot
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself" -- John Stuart Mill
Greetings AMT. Your denials of reality will not change it. President Bush won the initial count in Florida. There is a process by law in Florida and it was followed. President Bush won the first recount. He won the second recount. He won the third recount. He won the Florida vote. He won the election as well.
NWA/AMT says: “ Considering that in the state of Florida the election commision hand picked by one Jeb Bush unilaterally and inexplicably decided to exclude thousands of voters (from predominantly Democratic districts,incidentally) from even voting, produced confusing and inconsistent procedures both for voting and for counting and handling of the ballots and then, when it became obvious the important role Florida would play did everything they could to impede the process; there was no election in Florida, therefore no election for him to win.â€
Governor Bush did nothing unilaterally nor did he ‘inexplicably’ decide to exclude anyone. If you have a problem with the ballots or the way the voting was conducted in the problem counties, you need to talk to the county leaders in said counties. Note: they were ALL run by democrats. Note 2: complaints of irregularities returned AGAIN in 2002 in the same counties due to continued incompetence by said democrats.
NWA/AMT says: “ I'm sorry if you weren't aware, Colonel, but even those of us who don't get to go to the "O CLub" after a days work are allowed to earn an education. “
Argumentum ad hominem.
NWA/AMT says: “As you may have forgotten, the Democrats only agreed to a partial recount as a compromise to expedite the recall process. Apparently they naively believed that an independent analysis of the facts would show the need for a full recount. Perhaps it would have but we will never know since the GOP-dominated Supreme Court chose not to take on the investigation. Remember Colonel, an act of omission is still an act and by that act they selected Bush.â€
No, the democrats did nothing to expedite the process. They didn’t ‘agree’ to anything. Their tactic was to pursue a partial recount in heavily democrat counties (with irregularities and problem ballots developed and administered by democrats!) to try to maximize their gains.
NWA/AMT says: “ Indeed, it never was. Only a partial count was used for a "final" count and the question of those voters illegally denied their right to vote was never addressed.â€
There was no partial count! Florida had the initial count. It had a recount. It had another recount. It had yet another recount. President Bush won them all.
NWA/AMT says: “Indeed? Luckily for our nation it isn't the end of the story just because one side says so. We condemn other nations for far less egregious election rigging than that which occurred in Florida in 2000, and those of us who have taken the time to investigate both sides of the issue will not only continue to question the legitimacy of the Bush 'election' but will be watching very closely in the future should such antics be attempted again.â€
It is the end of the story when one side says so all the time - if it is backed by THE LAW! Once again, any ‘rigging’ occurred in democrat-run counties. Go bring your complaints to them. That is where the antics occurred.
NWA/AMT says: “ Indeed, to the eternal shame of our nation, it did not. It was not allowed to.â€
Eternal shame? No. The law was followed and the election was certified. The shame was the Gore campaign and their attempts to bypass the law ultimately putting the country through tremendous angst. The other shame to which you should be particularly sensitive was the democrat campaign to throw out military votes. You can even read the democrat memo detailing the procedures they would use to throw out votes by our brave men and women serving in combat zones. You can read the news reports of the operatives ‘high-fiving’ each other as each vote is thrown out. That was the most GROSS example of voter denial and it is particularly egregious given the target was the military men and women serving in harms way defending our freedoms and way of life.
NWA/AMT says: “ Thanks for providing the pretty colored map thoughtfully provided by the Oak Park Republican Party. I'm sure we can all rely on them for a fair and impartial analysis, or, using the slogan of that "left wing media" outlet Fox News, should I say "Fair and Balanced"? I notice it contains many statistics but excludes one: Popular Vote Count. I wonder why?â€
Sorry you discount the map of the United States, with results by county, showing President Bush’s overwhelming support merely because of where it was generated. Perhaps the same map from this source would be better? It is that bastion of the right wing, the Sierra Times.
Non Right Wing Source for OVERWHELMING BUSH WIN
BTW, the exclusion of the popular vote is because it is irrelevant to the selection of the President. (reference: US Constitution)
NWA/AMT says: “ Unfortuately I am quite familiar with the antiquated Electoral College, a left over from the early days of our nation when travel was by horse and even county elections took days to decide.â€
Your familiarity doesn’t seem particularly deep. Read James Madison in Federalists No 10. It is very clear the Founders created a republic and not a direct democracy. We are not reduced to a simple will of the majority or plurality. There are checks and balances. Nothing is more alien to the US Constitution than saying American democracy is the unchecked, unfiltered will of the majority. We are not a one-person one vote when it comes to electing the President. The Senate is another example. The 33 million residents in California get the same number of Senate votes as the less than 1 million residents of Montana. If you wish to do away with the ‘antiquated’ electoral college, than to be consistent you would demand the dissolution of the Senate as well and just generate a single legislative chamber where majority rules.
NWA/AMT says: “I find it interesting that not once but twice in your post you took the time to question my knowledge of the Constitution, and by implication either my intelligence, patriotism or both. A schoolyard tactic we learned to avoid in speech-debate class in the ninth grade when I was in school.â€
Pointing out that someone is not familiar with the Constitution is not an attack on his intelligence nor his patriotism. Ignorance is not equivalent to intelligence. Not sure where you draw this from. I do appreciate the belittling comment about ninth grade speech class though.
NWA/AMT says: “ Before you wrap yourself in the flag in an attempt to lend extra weight to your arguments, it might do to remember that many served before you just as many will serve after you and not all were or will be Republicans. If they are then the nation they think they're fighting for will have ceased to exist.
When I did my fighting for our country it was not from an armored gun tub travelling at hundreds of knots per hour thousands of feet in the air but on the ground where I could see their eyes as I killed them. Does that make me more qualified to be an American than you? Should we compare medals? No, because it does not matter, nor does rank or any of the other trappings of status. We each get one vote, theoretically anyhow.â€
You are that which you accuse.
NWA/AMT says: “ I realize that you probably cannot understand how anyone could have the temerity to question what you apparently believe to be fact, but I believe it is not only my right but, more importantly, my responsibility to do so.â€
I can understand and it is not ‘apparently’ a fact. It is a fact. But you can bang your head against the wall all you want trying to deny it. And I will not question your right to do so. Just your judgement.
NWA/AMT says: “ An earlier version of the US Supreme Court, in 1943, heard a case involving the state of West Virginia requiring a loyalty oath from its citizens and stated, in part:
"...Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard." (West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnett, 1943)â€
Now you are really stretching it. Not sure where you think I am advocating you or anyone else take a loyalty oath. You’re perfectly welcome to your opinion and I am perfectly welcome to question it. You are perfectly welcome to deny facts and I am perfectly welcome to point them out. Although, in your and my case, we did take an oath to defend the (‘antiquated’) Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
NWA/AMT says: “ No, Colonel, based on the evidence I have seen, taken from both sides of the argument, I do not believe that George Bush was elected President of the United States. Like another 'left wing' Liberal I believe that:
"Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it." - Mark Twainâ€
Funny how your ubiquitous use of my rank appears to be used with sarcasm and not respect. Once again, you do not believe President Bush was elected and you think the Electoral College is ‘antiquated’. Well, NWA/AMT, he was and it isn’t.
NWA/AMT says: “ Thankfully I need neither your permission nor your approval to do so.
I never implied or stated you needed my permission nor my approval. It is amusing you feel the need to state it as such.
NWA/AMT says: “ Yet.â€
You imply there is an impending threat to your ability to register an opinion? Nice touch.
A10Pilot
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself" -- John Stuart Mill
LiveInAHotel
Veteran
- Nov 5, 2003
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You damn SKIPPY!djlndc said:
sentrido
Veteran
- Jan 8, 2004
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Two things you'll never hear the "I can't get over the fact that Gore lost crowd" say:
1. Georgia had more bad ballots than Florida - Why no request for recount in GA?
2. Florida Supreme Court tried to steal election for Gore - 7 Democrat Justices appointed by a Democrat governor.
Get over it – Gore lost! It’s been nearly four years… Move on with your life!
1. Georgia had more bad ballots than Florida - Why no request for recount in GA?
2. Florida Supreme Court tried to steal election for Gore - 7 Democrat Justices appointed by a Democrat governor.
Get over it – Gore lost! It’s been nearly four years… Move on with your life!
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,179
- 1,420
Okay - Bush won. He also drug us into a war with a country that had nothing to do with the 9/11 terrorist attacks, unless you believe Sean Hannity and his "coulda happened" theories....Saddam had the weapons but he "coulda" moved them, or he "coulda" been moving them around to keep them hidden (although Sean and his ilk fail to explain why the spy cameras in satellites can spot a herd of camels in the North, but can't find a convoy of trucks moving WMD's to another hiding place). Bush attacking Iraq in the name of "terrorism" is akin to Roosevelt attacking Cambodia in response to the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor. Also I've seen in the papers recently that a town of "recently liberated" Iraqi's were killing soldiers and civilians and dragging their bodies thru town. But I suppose I should feel good that America is safer from terrorists.djlndc said:
Well, you Republicans sure have convinced me. I sure will never question the legitimacy of the 2000 election ever again. Nor will I question the ever expanding use of the so-called Patriot Act being used against non-terrorism-related targets, nor the paper-thin rationale used to justify the Iraq War. Or anything else.
No Siree, I'm going to get on the team and come in for the big win!
No Siree, I'm going to get on the team and come in for the big win!
ELP_WN_Psgr
Senior
- Nov 29, 2003
- 419
- 0
Staright Republican ticket here, unless I really don't like a particular GOP candidate in a down ballot race, in which case I will vote for the Libertarian in that contest.
I like Bush. I think he's done a great job. Inheriting Clinton's recession, economy further degraded in the post-911 malaise, the tax cuts were just what we needed and are just beginning to pay dividends.
I wouldn't mind seeing Cheney step aside from the ticket, to be replaced by Rice or Giulani, but that's just my personal opinion.
Friends don't let friends drive drunk or vote for democrats.
BTW KC you need to e mail me.
I like Bush. I think he's done a great job. Inheriting Clinton's recession, economy further degraded in the post-911 malaise, the tax cuts were just what we needed and are just beginning to pay dividends.
I wouldn't mind seeing Cheney step aside from the ticket, to be replaced by Rice or Giulani, but that's just my personal opinion.
Friends don't let friends drive drunk or vote for democrats.
BTW KC you need to e mail me.
