Here comes the BK threat from the company

[Vortilon]

thank you, Kev, for returning the conversation to the topics that matter - and to you, Frank, and E, for your replies.
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Health care costs are something that no company is willing to make any long term commitment to given the rapidly escalating costs... providing health care coverage for a lifetime is getting as hard to find as it is to find companies that will pay defined benefits. Companies want to know the costs they are incurring when they commit to them and they really do not want to provide benefits beyond the time period that a company works for them.
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While a 401k can be more palatable to alot of people than a DB plan, there is no other alternative for a lot of people to find health care... until they hit Medicare age. It is a whole 'nother debate but there should be some serious questions being asked about having healthcare for seniors in the US to be almost exclusively provided by the gov't because private employers will not commit to providing those benefits.
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As you note, all of the ideas presented require a desire for both the TWU and AA to negotiate.
I'm not sure if it is true - and anyone can provide an update - but if it is true that the TWU has left the negotiating table and the APA and APFA are still talking to AA, then the worst place the TWU represented AA employees could be in is on the cutting room floor of a restructuring pow wow presided over by AA, APA, and APFA.
It is highly doubtful that the APA will agree to much if any scope concessions... which means that if the company has to make up for what the pilots won't give, they will be turning to the TWU represented groups that are not negotiating.
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While the TWU might not be very effective, this is absolutely the time to throw whatever support behind them in the midst of what could be THE FINAL EXAM. TWU represented employees MUST ensure their interests are protected, esp. in light of the company's stated plans and the APA's intentions of doing "one better" than the rest of the labor groups at AA.
AA will take full advantage of the TWU's weak position and the disdain for it by so many members if those members don't rally to protect their interests when it most counts.
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E,
most of the DCI carriers were/are more unionized that DL... not sure how DL managed to convince the DCI carriers that they would have to give up control of much of their ground operations at many of the hubs to DL... but I believe it had to do with DL's belief that it could provide higher quality services (and honestly I think it has improved) as well as DL's desire to protect the jobs of its employees ... perhaps DCI carriers had a higher turnover rate so the impact was relatively minor; many of the DCI employees were allowed to apply with DL...and I'm not sure may have been bridged over to DL....
Unforunately Kev's idea about AA taking over ground handling for AE seems counter to the deal to divest AE in which AA is apparently promising AE ground handling revenues since they cannot commit to long term RJ contracts.

Speaking of health care costs for companies. AA can turn down people for legitimate surgeries etc.. Well, in the AA HR website they list coverage for: GRB. That stands for: Gender Reassignment Benefit. AA will cover up to $75K towards the procedure, and up to $10k for travel. This is an insane example of how pathetic a certain group has embedded themselves in control of this corporation. Next time you need something done, and you find out AA won't cover it - or only part of it, think about how much AA is willing to flake out for these nut jobs. No pun intended.

 

[damajagua]

Speaking of health care costs for companies. AA can turn down people for legitimate surgeries etc.. Well, in the AA HR website they list coverage for: GRB. That stands for: Gender Reassignment Benefit. AA will cover up to $75K towards the procedure, and up to $10k for travel. This is an insane example of how pathetic a certain group has embedded themselves in control of this corporation. Next time you need something done, and you find out AA won't cover it - or only part of it, think about how much AA is willing to flake out for these nut jobs. No pun intended.

No taken. HOMOPHOBIC!!!

 

[DFWFSC]

AE only has TWU represented rampers in about 10 stations,mainly the hubs and maybe CMH and LGA. Most all AE stations are staffed with agents who also work the ramp and ops etc...there all crossed utilized. AA did this back in the 70s at a few smaller stations like PSP,OMA,DSM....they were called station agents. I dont know if it could ever work again with AA or not. PDX has AA agents but has AE folks on the ramp who are non-union, but not sure if the AE employees are trained or even allowed to go up and help the AA agents.

 

[737823]

AE only has TWU represented rampers in about 10 stations,mainly the hubs and maybe CMH and LGA. Most all AE stations are staffed with agents who also work the ramp and ops etc...there all crossed utilized. AA did this back in the 70s at a few smaller stations like PSP,OMA,DSM....they were called station agents. I dont know if it could ever work again with AA or not. PDX has AA agents but has AE folks on the ramp who are non-union, but not sure if the AE employees are trained or even allowed to go up and help the AA agents.

Makes sense for PDX it's such a small AA station with just the DFW flights. ORD and STL went away several years ago. Alaska has extensive service to PDX and that's usually who I take there.

Josh

 

[eolesen]

No taken. HOMOPHOBIC!!!

Does AA now also cover breast augmentation? Body piercing? Tattoos?

Something like this which is not medically necessary would never be covered under Medicare, so why should it be provided under an employer self-funded plan?

This is no better than the teachers union complaining about cuts to education while getting reimbursed for Viagra and birth control.

 

[Buck]

Does AA now also cover breast augmentation? Body piercing? Tattoos?

Something like this which is not medically necessary would never be covered under Medicare, so why should it be provided under an employer self-funded plan?

This is no better than the teachers union complaining about cuts to education while getting reimbursed for Viagra and birth control.

Eric, it depends on what medical plan you select, but yes to an extent.

 

[Mr Red]

Does AA now also cover breast augmentation? Body piercing? Tattoos?

Something like this which is not medically necessary would never be covered under Medicare, so why should it be provided under an employer self-funded plan?

This is no better than the teachers union complaining about cuts to education while getting reimbursed for Viagra and birth control.

What does Company B/K Threat have to do with teachers losing their jobs or their perscription benefit ? WEIRD

 

[Buck]

You do realize the two quotes are from two different posts? So it is ok if I challenge someone else but certainly not you?
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but we have important issues to discuss about the future of AA and its employees... surely you have a pertinent thought on the subject.

I apologize if you were offended, I did not mean to offend you. I will attempt to curb my actions in the future.

 

[jersey777]

Speaking of health care costs for companies. AA can turn down people for legitimate surgeries etc.. Well, in the AA HR website they list coverage for: GRB. That stands for: Gender Reassignment Benefit. AA will cover up to $75K towards the procedure, and up to $10k for travel. This is an insane example of how pathetic a certain group has embedded themselves in control of this corporation. Next time you need something done, and you find out AA won't cover it - or only part of it, think about how much AA is willing to flake out for these nut jobs. No pun intended.

Yeah...keep your homophobic comments to yourself!

 

[737823]

This is no better than the teachers union complaining about cuts to education while getting reimbursed for Viagra and birth control.

+10,000.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

I apologize if you were offended, I did not mean to offend you. I will attempt to curb my actions in the future.

My sincere commendation to you for being willing to apologize... it is becoming an increasingly lost art to the detriment of our ability as a society to relate to each other. There's something about "I apologize," "please," and "thank you" that has been lost in the internet age but which is still the glue that can keep alot of relationships of all kinds properly working.
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Although we all clearly come from different perspectives, we should be able to discuss the very real issues that face us as a world and in the airline industry w/o feeling like we must attack those who bring ideas different than our own or worse refuse to talk w/ them.
There are regions of the world that have been characterized by that type of behavior for centuries - to the detriment of the entire world.
WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT.
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Specific to the topic, companies make values statements based on how they choose to spend their resources, particulary w/ respect to the clientele they wish to attract; the government will get its money whether you choose to give it to them or not.
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It would appear that Kev's notion of figuring out a way for AA and AE to share ramp work to the benefit of all is not so far fetched given that there are significant parts of AE that are not unioinized.
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Anyone have a number on how many AA rampers work in the top 50, 75, or 100 that are most at risk of being outsourced to AE... presumably requiring either significant layoffs, transfers of employees to AE (perhaps resulting in a loss of TWU members), or early outs that would reduce the number of employees that would need to be reaccommodated?

The only true way of measuring our productivity is against previous performance and not with competitors because our competitors used outsuorcing as a means of hiding labor costs. At AA the opposite was done, distorting the figures the opposite way. So our competitors productivity was erroneously inflated, by a large amount do to hiding labor costs through outsourcing and ours was erroneously deflated against past performance by insourcing more work.

Bob,
although you continue to believe this, you still have not provided any evidence to support this notion.
As I previously noted, based on statements that AA and DL have both made regarding the amount of insourcing revenue they obtain, AA insources (based on the most recent data which is not within the past year) work equal to about 15% of what AA spends on maintenance of its own fleet while DL obtains insourcing revenue equivalent to about 25% of what it spends in maintaining its fleet.
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Given that DL insources more revenue than any other N. American airline (something DL repeatedly claims and no one in the business has challenged as incorrect) and also outsources some overhauls - and still manages to report a maintenance cost per available seat mile lower than every other network carrier and even lower than most low fare carriers - most of whom outsource their maintenance, walk me through the justification that DL is not in reality running a lower cost more efficient maintenance operation because of the choices that they make about what work to insource and what to outsouce?
I might note that I have every reason to believe that AA has the potential to do as well as if not better than what DL is doing in terms of maintenance costs and capabilities - not unlike what Kev suggested earlier.
What is clear is that if the TWU doesn't come up w/ some really viable solutions really soon, there could be a lot of AA employees who will pay a high price for the lack of "out of the box" thinking that is needed to solve the problems AA and its employees face.

 

[Kev3188]

AE only has TWU represented rampers in about 10 stations,mainly the hubs and maybe CMH and LGA.

Ok, thanks.

Most all AE stations are staffed with agents who also work the ramp and ops etc...there all crossed utilized.

I kinda figured that was the case in the smaller stations. They are here in mine, anyway...

AA did this back in the 70s at a few smaller stations like PSP,OMA,DSM....they were called station agents. I dont know if it could ever work again with AA or not. PDX has AA agents but has AE folks on the ramp who are non-union, but not sure if the AE employees are trained or even allowed to go up and help the AA agents.

Cross utilization is a good idea. I didn't include it since I thought w/AA's upstairs group being non union, and Fleet being TWU, it would be a non-starter. I suspect mixing AA & AE would go over even worse?

We had a group of stations that were cross utilized at NW, and it was very efficient. I wish they'd bring that back, instead of vendoring parts of it out...

 

[Birdman]

No taken. HOMOPHOBIC!!!

Yeah...keep your homophobic comments to yourself!

I for one can do without this B.S. name calling. Vortilon made a valid point in regard to wasteful spending by a compAAny near BK. Take your comments to the gay bashing websites.

 

[odie01]

Speaking of health care costs for companies. AA can turn down people for legitimate surgeries etc.. Well, in the AA HR website they list coverage for: GRB. That stands for: Gender Reassignment Benefit. AA will cover up to $75K towards the procedure, and up to $10k for travel. This is an insane example of how pathetic a certain group has embedded themselves in control of this corporation. Next time you need something done, and you find out AA won't cover it - or only part of it, think about how much AA is willing to flake out for these nut jobs. No pun intended.

I agree, I was on the phone last week with metlife trying to get them to cover 75 dollars for panaramic dental x-rays. Did not know they cover up to 75k for an employee trying to change his God given outty to an inny.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I for one can do without this B.S. name calling. Vortilon made a valid point in regard to wasteful spending by a compAAny near BK. Take your comments to the gay bashing websites.

I'd not call it wasteful so much as I'd call it reverse discrimination on the part of the company (and therefore an internal violation of AA's catch-all clause, Rule 32).

At any rate, it's doubtful the company is picking up the tab, rather, insurance probably is.