up: Hey Dave! Give Me this contract and guarantee we can kick SWA's tails!
http://www.twu555.org/contract.html
http://www.twu555.org/contract.html
I'll Take This Contract Anyday!@!
- Thread starter isthisok
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Speechless, HuH?johnnyfleet
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- Oct 3, 2002
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Dave seemed to say in the meeting that we can't have Southwest's union contracts, because we are a Hub and Spoke carrier. I would just like to know what our employee costs would be if we were all under Southwests union contracts instead of US Airways. I know that Fleet Service and Customer Service would benefit tremendously, how would the other groups fare? How would this affect US Airways overall costs?
Johnny
Johnny
BoeingBoy
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johnnyfleet,
Since I fly the same airplane (737) it's an apples to apples comparison. My pay would be the same, workrules basically the same (some a little better, some a little worse), and benefits definitely better under WN's contract.
For a more across the board look, Unisys Transportation Management Consulting calculated how much less it would cost if WN flew our pre-bankruptcy seat miles. They came up with $1.5 Billion less in labor costs and $1.7 Billion less in non-labor costs for a total of $3.2 Billion less in total.
Of the $1.5 Billion difference in labor costs, the concessions during bankruptcy covered over $1.2 Billion of that before termination of the pilots' pension plan. In short, the employee portion has been mostly covered.
Of the $1.7 Billion difference in non-labor costs, $900 million was shed during bankruptcy, leaving $800 million left to cover - amazing close to what Dave says he still wants to save on the non-labor side ($750 million)
Jim
Since I fly the same airplane (737) it's an apples to apples comparison. My pay would be the same, workrules basically the same (some a little better, some a little worse), and benefits definitely better under WN's contract.
For a more across the board look, Unisys Transportation Management Consulting calculated how much less it would cost if WN flew our pre-bankruptcy seat miles. They came up with $1.5 Billion less in labor costs and $1.7 Billion less in non-labor costs for a total of $3.2 Billion less in total.
Of the $1.5 Billion difference in labor costs, the concessions during bankruptcy covered over $1.2 Billion of that before termination of the pilots' pension plan. In short, the employee portion has been mostly covered.
Of the $1.7 Billion difference in non-labor costs, $900 million was shed during bankruptcy, leaving $800 million left to cover - amazing close to what Dave says he still wants to save on the non-labor side ($750 million)
Jim
BoeingBoy
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johnnyfleet,
About forgot....
What Dave said was that we couldn't become a Southwest - it would mean abandoning the hubs, getting rid of over half the airplanes, and ending service to all the smaller cities. He didn't mention Southwest's contracts, but he definitely mentioned their "cost structure" over and over.
Why do you think he didn't mention their contracts? Because he knows that if we all adopted their contracts our "cost structure" would go up, not down.
Jim
About forgot....
What Dave said was that we couldn't become a Southwest - it would mean abandoning the hubs, getting rid of over half the airplanes, and ending service to all the smaller cities. He didn't mention Southwest's contracts, but he definitely mentioned their "cost structure" over and over.
Why do you think he didn't mention their contracts? Because he knows that if we all adopted their contracts our "cost structure" would go up, not down.
Jim
wings396
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That is exactly why JB's costs and wages are now the HOT topic of comparison. A 4 year old airline with all junior agents earning $9 an hour. I am willing to bet that
Neeleman will pay his folks just as well as SWA does as time goes on. Neither of those companies view their employees as a liabilty like US does.
Neeleman will pay his folks just as well as SWA does as time goes on. Neither of those companies view their employees as a liabilty like US does.
Oh man, you have no idea how B6 is on pay. Sure you get the $9.00/hr, but there us something you forget. THERE IS NO UNIONS THERE! When you are hired, you sign a contract - a 5 year length - that is only renewable at the companies discretion. Get too senior? See ya later after your contract expires.wings396 said:
It's actually a stroke of genius. No pesky unionistas, no risk of "$20/hr professional baggage handlers"....David Neeleman should win a medal for showing how to run an airline.
LGA Fleet Service
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Neither do you apparently, here in NY they start at $10.50 per hour on the ramp,with yearly performance reviews.El Gato said:
I also asked a few people I know that are on the ramp over there about your five year contract claim and they said its news to them.Straight from the horses mouth so to speak,people that have been there from day one...
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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During Dave Siegel's web cast he compared US Airways' situation to TWA and America West. Siegel commented one airline has been successful and one has not, therefore, I believe we should stop looking at the Southwest contract and instead look at the America West contract(s).
Southwest is a point-to-point LCC and America West is more of a small network carrier/LCC hybrid with a fleet plan similar in scope to US Airways.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Southwest is a point-to-point LCC and America West is more of a small network carrier/LCC hybrid with a fleet plan similar in scope to US Airways.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
We really should stop looking at WN, as their success requires actual management and a real business plan.
OTOH, dave sure talked them up a lot.
What it boils down to - U has a labor cost advantage vis a vis the 'enemy' and is still getting their a$$ kicked.
Labor's fault, to be sure.
OTOH, dave sure talked them up a lot.
What it boils down to - U has a labor cost advantage vis a vis the 'enemy' and is still getting their a$$ kicked.
Labor's fault, to be sure.
johnnyfleet
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I just looked at the Ramp Contract for America West Airlines, Fleet Service would be much worse off with this,
America West Ramp Contract
There are a lot of good things, but the pay scale tops out at $15.20 per hour.
How would the other groups compare with America West's contracts? I wonder what US Airways costs would be like with everyone under America West's contracts.
Johnny
America West Ramp Contract
There are a lot of good things, but the pay scale tops out at $15.20 per hour.
How would the other groups compare with America West's contracts? I wonder what US Airways costs would be like with everyone under America West's contracts.
Johnny
