New Citites

[Dizel8]

Busdrvr,

Hmm, you are right, jetBlue pays so little and UAL so much. I am sure you will be fighting tooth and nail to raise the Mesa rate.

Be a nice fellow though and tell me how you ESOP worked out?

Why is it, that when contracts are due, you say that pay is just a minor detail and does not make or break a company, but when it is the competitors, it makes all the difference in the world. " We do not want to kill the golden goose......."

57 airplanes vs 450, I must be missing something!

 

[Whadayano]

Busdriver--since B6 already has 320's there, they'll be adding more of those to BOS too--that's regardless of virgin. But if Branson were to announce it next week, by the time he could launch, say Oct-Nov if he's lucky, B6 is going to have another 5-10 cities covered out of BOS, and the E-190's would go in next fall to do the off-season part of routes that can support an all 320 rotation in the high season. BTW, take labor cost out of the equation and then stack it up against B6--assume you were all to work for free. Your costs would still not get to 6 cents a seat mile, where B6 is

 

[B6Busdriver]

"then wouldn't JB want to focus the early 190's on BOS, to "suck out the oxygen" from Virgin"

You're kidding right? Branson has more money than Davy Crockett, and if he focused on BOS, with 320's vs the unproven and at best case 10% more expensive per CASM 190 (NOT counting the sub Blu pay rates), Blu would get stuffed. Jblu was proof of concept, offer a few stock options and it's amazing what folks will work for. Branson will surely take it to new heights... When you offer on "point to point" service, you don't have a hub system (and it's revenue premium to fall back on. And all at a time that Blue is starting to pay for MX. I guess Branson will even have the "they are under warantee, so no MX cost" accounting. Karma's a b1tch.

Your post is so full of holes I don't know where to start. As far as maintenance costs, yes they have gone up but CASM has gone DOWN! Sub pay rates? Well your UAL rates have taken quite a hit haven't they? For a comapny starting their 5th year of operation the rates aren't. Name one airline that has paid wages as high ours in its 5th year of operation. As far as BOS goes the flights are full,full,full. Bring it on Branson, Dick is the on that is going to get stuffed.

 

[Busdrvr]

"All I have to do is fire everybody every five years" to compete with low-cost carriers, Bethune quipped.


"Your post is so full of holes I don't know where to start"

OK, lets see

"As far as maintenance costs, yes they have gone up but CASM has gone DOWN!"

Lets see, hmmm, how could that be. Oh yeah, lower fuel costs (not very hedged for next year...) and a 11% LONGER STAGE LENGTH. Oh and one more item....

"Sub pay rates? Well your UAL rates have taken quite a hit haven't they?"

From your 10K (maybe you should try reading one...)

"Salaries, wages and benefits increased 36.3%, or $20.7 million, due to an increase in average full-time equivalent employees of 36.7% in 2004 compared to 2003. Cost per available seat mile decreased 5.7% as a result of lower profit sharing expense."

Oh yipee, you must be so excited, you lowered your CASM..... Partly by LOWERING YOU PAY Dave RULES!!! He LOVES YOU!!

"As far as BOS goes the flights are full,full,full. Bring it on Branson, Dick is the on that is going to get stuffed."

Actually, as a compnay gets older, I'd expect it's RASM's to go UP, Blues went DOWN SUBSTANTIALLY (7.9%) while they went UP for the rest of the industry, and while the rest of the economy improved. Nice trend line . But silly me, I said that would happen over a year ago. It's part of the business model. No connecting traffic equals DIMINISHING RETURNS. But I know!! Add more capacity, that'll drive up RASM's!!! And do it with smaller, unproven, more expensive jets!!! Then you can create all the hassles of a sub fleet and all the jealousies Dave's "fence" will create. Why was it SWA fired him?

Back to pay. A contract is like a Ala Carte meal. Yup Dave got you the 8 ounce sirloin. Yippee. Meanwhile at the next table they got a 10 ounce Ribeye. Yeah, dave gave you a steak almost as big!!! but wait They got a potato to (B-fund)? Salad (work rules)? And what's with the big piece of pie (retirement, retiree medical)? :angry: Surely this Dave will bring out the rest later right? We just got here right? How come we don't even have salt (Airport parking)? I'm sure that pie on the next table will go bad before he can eat it.... Oh well, I wasn't that hungry after all.......

 

[Busdrvr]

Now back on topic.....

Jblu's business model is that they typically DON'T connect pax. And arguably, there would be huge costs to pay if the did start. If weather started causing probs, then with only one flight ot some markets, you'd be paying for quite a few NYC hotel rooms on regular basis. And to keep costs down, the FF bene's "suck". So each route has to "stand alone". A hub route structure and it's increased revenue doesn't exist (Jblu is the ONLY airline without this model). So how do you keep pax if VA comes in on the same route?

TV? I'll bet VA has either Songs TV (only it'll work), or an even better system (maybe self contained on demand movies, not Springer re-runs on DTV). Maybe even cool music and videos from Virgin records, and maybe even phone calls and internet from Virgin mobile. Oh and don't forget, his pax will be able to connect to London....

You'll be "trendier" I'll bet that's what the maker of pet rocks thought when the beanie babies came out. A "rad" CEO vs the "ADD" CEO who can't keep his hands to himself...

Now let's add in the lower costs from his new, free mx jets and employees working for LESS than you... hmmmm. And don't forget, when your margins decrease, the interest rates you'll be paying on the highly margined airline will go up, which will reduce margins.....

 

[downline7]

"All I have to do is fire everybody every five years" to compete with low-cost carriers, Bethune quipped.


"Your post is so full of holes I don't know where to start"

OK, lets see

"As far as maintenance costs, yes they have gone up but CASM has gone DOWN!"

Lets see, hmmm, how could that be. Oh yeah, lower fuel costs (not very hedged for next year...) and a 11% LONGER STAGE LENGTH. Oh and one more item....

"Sub pay rates? Well your UAL rates have taken quite a hit haven't they?"

From your 10K (maybe you should try reading one...)

"Salaries, wages and benefits increased 36.3%, or $20.7 million, due to an increase in average full-time equivalent employees of 36.7% in 2004 compared to 2003. Cost per available seat mile decreased 5.7% as a result of lower profit sharing expense."

Oh yipee, you must be so excited, you lowered your CASM..... Partly by LOWERING YOU PAY Dave RULES!!! He LOVES YOU!!

"As far as BOS goes the flights are full,full,full. Bring it on Branson, Dick is the on that is going to get stuffed."

Actually, as a compnay gets older, I'd expect it's RASM's to go UP, Blues went DOWN SUBSTANTIALLY (7.9%) while they went UP for the rest of the industry, and while the rest of the economy improved. Nice trend line . But silly me, I said that would happen over a year ago. It's part of the business model. No connecting traffic equals DIMINISHING RETURNS. But I know!! Add more capacity, that'll drive up RASM's!!! And do it with smaller, unproven, more expensive jets!!! Then you can create all the hassles of a sub fleet and all the jealousies Dave's "fence" will create. Why was it SWA fired him?

Back to pay. A contract is like a Ala Carte meal. Yup Dave got you the 8 ounce sirloin. Yippee. Meanwhile at the next table they got a 10 ounce Ribeye. Yeah, dave gave you a steak almost as big!!! but wait They got a potato to (B-fund)? Salad (work rules)? And what's with the big piece of pie (retirement, retiree medical)? :angry: Surely this Dave will bring out the rest later right? We just got here right? How come we don't even have salt (Airport parking)? I'm sure that pie on the next table will go bad before he can eat it.... Oh well, I wasn't that hungry after all.......

isnt this "New Cities" and not "my-airline-is-better-then-your-airline"?

Im pretty sure though, then when it comes to jB, UAL/Ted, Delta/song, Frontier, SWA, Continental, AA, etc. .. each airline has its own pros and cons .. each has its own personality, speculated future, operating procedures, etc. Lets give it a rest.

Sooooo ... how about JFK-SNA?? hmmm?

 

[B6Busdriver]

Busdriver,
After your airline lost 450 million last quarter I would be a bit more worried about UAL's survival. From the get go the talking pundits and naysayers like you have bashed JetBlue and said that we will fail when this or that happens. Well guess what we are still in business making money unlike that airline you work for. Good luck on the government loans, you guys are going to need them. I write my senators and congressman all the time about how ridiculous it is to prop up UAL. Guess what? They agree! I tried to respond the first time and not make it personal but after your response the gloves are off. Have a great day!

 

[Busdrvr]

"After your airline lost 450 million last quarter I would be a bit more worried about UAL's survival."

I figured you'd say something like that. you lack of understandin Re: Blu's books would suggest that you wouldn't understand the diff between operating, net and BK numbers.

"From the get go the talking pundits and naysayers like you have bashed JetBlue and said that we will fail when this or that happens"

So the pundits are wrong when they talk about Blu but not when the talk about UAL. Nice consistancy slick. .

"Well guess what we are still in business making money unlike that airline you work for."

Re-read Bethunes Quote. See some of us could compete and get jobs at better paying places. some folks couldn't, right B6? One day (in a few years) you will be "overpaid". It'll be sooner than you think by the looks of your diminishing yields and skyrocketing Mx costs. But Dave can just profit sharing right?

"I write my senators and congressman all the time about how ridiculous it is to prop up UAL. Guess what? They agree!"

What Sen are those B6? I thought this wasn't supposed to be political. I'd like to talk to them. I'd like to see the government quit giving breaks to companoies that buy nothing but foreign equipment. How many US made jets does Blu have? I'd also like to complain to them that I don't think It's fair that companies WITH retiree health care benefits and defined benefit pension plans should have to foot the bill for irresponsible trolls who refuse to demand it from their employers and the folks who refuse to give it to them. Should I have to work harder and pay more medicare because YOU, at least to Blu, aren't worth the added expense of post retirement healthcare? What State is that B6, I'll call them monday.

 

[Busdrvr]

"I write my senators and congressman all the time about how ridiculous it is to prop up UAL. Guess what? They agree! I tried to respond the first time and not make it personal but after your response the gloves are off. Have a great day!"

FWIW, I have never in my LIFE called an elected official to lobby against other peoples jobs. Oh the gloves are off huh. You supposedly wrote your Sens trying to undermine someone else. Classy move Pal. Your Co-workers are surely proud!!! Then, when the "gloves are on" you place nice?! Kind of like "I'm your buddy" while sticking a knife in the back? You are an FQ-50 waiting to happen. D8, Bird, I enjoy the give and take with you guys, but on B6, you guys got yourself a real class act. UFB :angry: :down:

 

[Speedbird]

Busdrvr:

You need to give B6 a chance to get to know your style a little better. Its been awhile since you've been over here on the jetblue board blasting our upstart company like the good ol' days. He/she is more like you than you'd care to admit. You both are fiercely proud of your airlines and will gladly kick anybody in the nuts who tries to throw mud on it. Although I could be totally wrong and he/she may know you very well and is successfully trying to get your goat.

 

[RDUSWF]

Busdriver,
A hand out is a handout, I am tired of our government giving my money to companies with bad mgmt and business plans. If you cannot survive on your own, then it is not the responsibility of the tax payers to bail your ass out. The fact that the majority of this money went to companies that were in trouble before the attacks just makes it worse.

The reason why JBLU, FL, SWA, B9 and a couple of others have made money while UA (bankrupt), US, AA, Dl, NW etc have lost money is because the LCCs have recognized that you can make money while providing a comparable (sometimes better) product and a reasonable price. It is called a market driven economy.

PS. These are the same companies (the ones that took a majority of the hand out) that turn around and rape their best customers, whenever they have a chance. Now that is a sound business plan!!

 

[Farley]

Everything Busdrvr does and says is legitimate, and everything else is illegitimate. The sooner you learn that rule, the sooner you'll reach true enlightenment and contentment.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Yes I enjoyed getting Busdriver's goat. I would NEVER write congress to block your loan, like it would matter if I did. I do wonder why guys like you enjoy coming on this board to discuss all the ways we are going to fail. Perhaps this makes for a good diversion?

 

[Busdrvr]

"I would NEVER write congress to block your loan, like it would matter if I did."

Oh, so you are a self confessed liar....

Farley, it's called dialogue. I SURELY have my biases, but I at least attempt to back up each and every point with data. try it. you might learn more about the industry and your own company.

"A hand out is a handout, I am tired of our government giving my money to companies with bad mgmt and business plans."

WRT ual, nobody is even suggesting a "handout" what has been suggested is a way for the country to make money on the deal AND avoid the lose of 60,000 people from the income tax rolls, SS and Medicare rolls (at least the paying side), the sales tax rolls, the property tax rolls and lastly stop them from joining the unemployment rolls. 1.6 billion is chump change in that case. But I'M TIRED of the cgovernment supporting companies that have no plans to provide retied workers with pensions and health care. Why SHOULD I have to pay YOUR way? A handout is a handout after all....

"If you cannot survive on your own, then it is not the responsibility of the tax payers to bail your ass out"

I'm sure I'll continue to feel that way re: you guys in 20 years when you retire (having retirement accounts and retiree healthcare plans with three diff entities myself )

 

[RDUSWF]

Again, you reply without first thinking. I have no allegiance to any airline anymore (I did when JI called RDU home), and am not in anyway involved in the airline business. I, as a consequence of my job, use the industry extensively as a business traveler.

What I am saying is being echoed by tens of thousands of people in my sistuation. I do know of any other industry that treats their best customers the worst. I would not mind being treated equal, but by raping myself and others is the reason why you are failing. 9/11 only brought your failed business model into focus, it was going to happen anyway. It is because of your self absorbed way of thinking, that the majors have refused to change. Either way it would have to happen because others figured out a better way, now instead of 9/11 you can blame the LCCs for your dismal performance. As far as pay goes, I am for getting as much as you can as long as it isn't detrimental to the hand that is feeding you. In your case in order for the hand to continue to feed your out-of-control appetite you have to get Handouts (at tax payer's expense) and rape you best customers. LOL

PS. Remember that at one time dinosaurs ruled the land. What happened to them? Answer, they were not willing/ able to evolve.