Plane skids off runway at LaGuardia

[robbedagain]

thanks meto   the crosswinds probably made things a whole lot worse for LIT   but in your opin did it play a role even if it were 9 knot tail wind in the LGA incident?

 

[metopower]

thanks meto   the crosswinds probably made things a whole lot worse for LIT   but in your opin did it play a role even if it were 9 knot tail wind in the LGA incident?

Not really... Landed on speed and in the touchdown zone.....tailwind would have cause them to go off the end of the runway not halfway down off to the side. Didn't mean that minus... Using my iPad. Sorry

 

[robbedagain]

ok  thanks

 

[WorldTraveler]

Wow ..I've been reading this and way too many speculations by people that have no idea how this system works. First... The auto spoilers are the key to the auto brakes working. Second ..on a snow or water impacted runway the auto brakes on the Md 88/90 may not detect the main wheel spin up and deploy so the action of the pilot not flying is to deploy the speed brakes manually if they have failed to deploy automatically . Third .... And this is important ... Sometimes repeat sometimes deploying the speed brakes manually will not also trigger the auto brakes to function.reverse thrust works like an anchor.....but opposite. That is why you use them with equal braking otherwise your reaction time is too slow to stop the weathervaining....thus loss of control. Little rock had more to do with not doing the checklist and crm not with any panicking .

that is exactly the type of detail that I have asked dawg to provide - but I should have asked you as a pilot.

I'm not speculating about anything, meto.

Your point also confirms what I have suggested which is that wheelspin or loss of traction might have started the cycle.

and I also get that DL pilots did properly configure the aircraft which was not at LIT which was a CRM issue.

again, thank you for providing factual information regarding how the aircraft works. The NTSB has said that the aircraft was properly configured according to the WSJ.

 

[robbedagain]

meto   in bad weather such as LIT and LGA  what's the max landing speed allowed for the MD88

 

[diamondcutter]

that is exactly the type of detail that I have asked dawg to provide - but I should have asked you as a pilot.I'm not speculating about anything, meto.Your point also confirms what I have suggested which is that wheelspin or loss of traction might have started the cycle.and I also get that DL pilots did properly configure the aircraft which was not at LIT which was a CRM issue.again, thank you for providing factual information regarding how the aircraft works. The NTSB has said that the aircraft was properly configured according to the WSJ.

Look in the mirror world fraudster, king of speculating . The other site does not have one who is a know it all, talks down to everyone and and takes contsant jabs at other AAlines!

Thanx meto for the factual information!!! See how I can just say thank you without inserting myself.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the other site has very few people who accurately talk about the business aspects of aviation. They have a whole lot of people who think they do. I know some of the people who actually do know what they are talking about and their message is not any better received than mine is here.

people love to live in denial of reality if reality isn't what they want to believe. It's not just about aviation.

I am more than happy to yield the floor to people who actually know what they are talking about on the issue... I've offered that floor to dawg on this subject regarding information he could bring. Meto brought the info instead. I have no problem whatsoever yielding to someone who knows.

I have no tolerance for people shooting down others just because they don't like them or their message

 

[metopower]

meto   in bad weather such as LIT and LGA  what's the max landing speed allowed for the MD88

Landing speed is determined by weight . There are additives for wind and x winds but over the years that has been reduced because of auto throttles and autopilot usage. It uses to be a formula of weight speed(ref)plus 5kts. + all the wind speed + 1/2 the gust = ref speed. That was determined to be too much. To slow it down the new formula is auto throttle ..on..weight speed (ref) + 1/2 the gust speed= much slower.
Those are guidelines. Both are safe but one (latter)allows a much slower ground speed on touchdown. I'm sure that the LGA pilot was using the latter formula....the first one is old school and you don't see it being used by the younger crews. Infact I don't use it anymore .

 

[robbedagain]

ok thanks   it seems like its easier now compared to the old school days?    

 

[metopower]

ok thanks   it seems like its easier now compared to the old school days?

Much better...but not as much fun

 

[topDawg]

unlike the dumbass WN mechanic who can't follow the line of questioning, you, dawg, actually made the point I have been making all along.

I didn't say there aren't mechanical problems that could have occurred but for one as major as brake and spoiler issues that go back months to have suddenly shown up on this landing after working fine with no issues discovered by maintenance or pilots is highly unlikely.

you didn't ask the question as to what causes the spoilers to deploy when they are set in auto mode... because they didn't. Is there a certain weight on the wheels that they sense to cause deployment and if so if the wheels didn't firmly touch the runway but the aircraft "skated" along the runway could that have caused the spoilers to fail to deploy.

I'm interested in a mechanic who actually knows that aircraft - and I presume you do, dawg, tell me how the systems are designed to prevent excessive engine use with the thrust reversers and how that is potentially tied to the failure of the spoilers to deploy.

I'm happy to learn from people who know the plane... I'm not going to sit still while other airline mechanics call me an idiot but have nothing to say about the plane - and clearly can't because their airline doesn't operate them.

and robbed's comment is valid... AA's pilots in the LIT accident "panicked" because of the lack of spoiler deployment... did DL's pilots do the same even though they apparently made a textbook approach and configuration of the aircraft for landing.

Its wheel spin. 
Sorry I wasn't really sure what you were asking me. 
 
Was it that the spoilers were configured correct but didn't deploy? I swear I saw that they did deploy correctly. (didn't see if it was done manually or not though.) 
 

Wow ..I've been reading this and way too many speculations by people that have no idea how this system works. First... The auto spoilers are the key to the auto brakes working. Second ..on a snow or water impacted runway the auto brakes on the Md 88/90 may not detect the main wheel spin up and deploy so the action of the pilot not flying is to deploy the speed brakes manually if they have failed to deploy automatically . Third .... And this is important ... Sometimes repeat sometimes deploying the speed brakes manually will not also trigger the auto brakes to function.reverse thrust works like an anchor.....but opposite. That is why you use them with equal braking otherwise your reaction time is too slow to stop the weathervaining....thus loss of control. Little rock had more to do with not doing the checklist and crm not with any panicking .

Much better answer than what I gave. 
 

that is exactly the type of detail that I have asked dawg to provide - but I should have asked you as a pilot.

I'm not speculating about anything, meto.

Your point also confirms what I have suggested which is that wheelspin or loss of traction might have started the cycle.

and I also get that DL pilots did properly configure the aircraft which was not at LIT which was a CRM issue.

again, thank you for providing factual information regarding how the aircraft works. The NTSB has said that the aircraft was properly configured according to the WSJ.

sorry WT, didn't understand the question. 
 
(and honestly i am not the best person to ask on the 88. I am not sure i have ever messed with the autopilot system before.) 
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

thanks for your honesty and calm response.

I'll talk with you for days when we can talk candidly as you have just done.

I do respect the knowledge you bring to the forum and hope you won't hesitate to share what you do know.

and I'm glad that meto participates so I don't have to read the "other forum" to get any kind of semi-accurate technical and handling information about the M88

 

[robbedagain]

meto,  is the auto brake same or similar on the md90 as it is on the mad dog 88s?   can pilots switch from an 88 to the 90 or is there more training involved

 

[metopower]

meto,  is the auto brake same or similar on the md90 as it is on the mad dog 88s?   can pilots switch from an 88 to the 90 or is there more training involved

Similar in function but 88 brakes are steel and are a pain . 90's are carbon and work great. Now all 88 crews are dual qualified. When I was on it only DFW crews were qualified. At the time we only had the sweet 16.

 

[Kev3188]

Sweet 16?