Prop 8 over turned in CA

[SparrowHawk]

Even granting that homosexuality is a chosen behavior which it is not.

Proof source please?

 

[delldude]

Actually there are occurrences of homosexuality in other animal species.

Man has dominion over all other species according to a book I read.

Does this mean man is superior to the other species?

Does this mean man is a homosexual deviant?

 

[Ms Tree]

So I don't have to revoke my membership at NAMBLA?

No you do not.

 

[Ms Tree]

For instance?



None



No



GOD chose my sex. My orientation is upright when standing.

B)xUT

Google is your friend


You said tat since there are not other homosexual animals (proven false) that this is proof that homosexuality is a deviance. Given that there is no other species even close to our advancement, how is that not an example of us not being a deviance? Seems like you are trying to have it both ways.

If god chose your sex then sexual orientation is not a choice.

 

[Ms Tree]

Proof source please?

Prove that a widget does not exist.

Since there is no proof that it is a choice, it stands to reason that it is not a choice.

When did you choose your orientation? Do you know anyone who chose theirs. The very idea of making a choice means that you are considering various options. To admit that would mean that at some point in your life you considered being homosexual, bi sexual or heterosexual. Then you decided on one. Not sure about you but I know that I never even considered any other option. I grew up hetero. There was never a time when I thought there was a choice.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Prove that a widget does not exist.

Since there is no proof that it is a choice, it stands to reason that it is not a choice.

When did you choose your orientation? Do you know anyone who chose theirs. The very idea of making a choice means that you are considering various options. To admit that would mean that at some point in your life you considered being homosexual, bi sexual or heterosexual. Then you decided on one. Not sure about you but I know that I never even considered any other option. I grew up hetero. There was never a time when I thought there was a choice.

Since there is no proof that God doesn't exist, I guess I'll see you in Church on Sunday right? And to answer your question the answer is YES, I do some someone who made the "Choice" and she is very glad she did.

 

[Ms Tree]

Since there is no proof that God doesn't exist, I guess I'll see you in Church on Sunday right? And to answer your question the answer is YES, I do some someone who made the "Choice" and she is very glad she did.

What choice did she make? To say that one person made a choice does not mean that the entire species made a choice. I do not believe that people can chose their sexuality. I believe people can make the choice to ignore who they are to fit into the mold that society expects but I do not believe you can choose sexuality like you can choose what pants to wear.

BTW. When did you make your choice and why did you choose what you did?

No you will not see me in any church. Since there is no proof that god does not exist does not mean that it stands to reason that it does. In this case there are more than two options. I believe that were are a result of a natural evolution and that we as a species are still evolving. Come back in a few million years and I would not be surprised if humans as we know them today no longer exist (assuming we do not go extinct). Our progeny will probably be studying us like we study homoerotic.

 

[SparrowHawk]

What choice did she make? To say that one person made a choice does not mean that the entire species made a choice. I do not believe that people can chose their sexuality. I believe people can make the choice to ignore who they are to fit into the mold that society expects but I do not believe you can choose sexuality like you can choose what pants to wear.

BTW. When did you make your choice and why did you choose what you did?

No you will not see me in any church. Since there is no proof that god does not exist does not mean that it stands to reason that it does. In this case there are more than two options. I believe that were are a result of a natural evolution and that we as a species are still evolving. Come back in a few million years and I would not be surprised if humans as we know them today no longer exist (assuming we do not go extinct). Our progeny will probably be studying us like we study homoerotic.

Moral inconsistency is a very enlightening and offers a great deal of insight into the person.

 

[Ms Tree]

Pray tell, what moral inconsistency is that?

 

[SparrowHawk]

 

[Ms Tree]

You still have not told me where I am morally inconsistent.

I agree with Rep Paul for the most part but I part way with him on prostitution. I have no moral reason with it, at least not in the typical fashion. My issue is that I believe it victimizes women. I do not believe that given the option, that most prostitutes would choose their 'profession'. Aside from the few that are high price call girls and the ones in NV, most of what I have read on the issue seem to indicate i is done out of necessity or because they are 'owned' by a pimp.

It's not a victimless crime in my opinion. This is the biggest issue I have with Paul and others like him. Things are very absolute and the specifics do not seem to matter. Marijuana is not the same as heroin or meth. The effects on the body are quite different. Meth and heroin can easily kill a person. Marijuana not so much. If prostitution is regulated like it is in NV, that is a different situation, the current environment in the rest of the country is not acceptable in my opinion.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You still have not told me where I am morally inconsistent.

I agree with Rep Paul for the most part but I part way with him on prostitution. I have no moral reason with it, at least not in the typical fashion. My issue is that I believe it victimizes women. I do not believe that given the option, that most prostitutes would choose their 'profession'. Aside from the few that are high price call girls and the ones in NV, most of what I have read on the issue seem to indicate i is done out of necessity or because they are 'owned' by a pimp.

It's not a victimless crime in my opinion. This is the biggest issue I have with Paul and others like him. Things are very absolute and the specifics do not seem to matter. Marijuana is not the same as heroin or meth. The effects on the body are quite different. Meth and heroin can easily kill a person. Marijuana not so much. If prostitution is regulated like it is in NV, that is a different situation, the current environment in the rest of the country is not acceptable in my opinion.

Do you have any idea the BILLIONS of Dollars in tax revenue we'd receive as a nation just by having Prostitutes and Drug Dealers paying Federal Income tax alone? Then throw in the 40% drop in violent crime and the dismantling of the DEA and all of the state and local drug task forces associated with the insane war on drugs, the cost savings would be astronomical. Then suppose we treat all of these "vices" as matters of public health and tax and regulate them as we do Tobacco and liquor? What does that do to the revenue stream?

When some makes their PERSONAL CHOICE to become a Prostitute it is nothing more than their exercising their inalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. It's not up to some dogooder progressive to legislate their conduct as they have made a free choice. A bad choice perhaps, but their choice none the less. When the government meddles in private lives their is a cost associated to that meddling. Such as raising generations of welfare recipients. Poverty stricken Indian Reservations and on the list goes.

 

[Ms Tree]

I do not care about the revenue side of it as much as I care about the human side of it. If these are going to be regulated industries with health and safety regulations in place I may agree with you. With out it I believe it is a recipe for disaster.

I cannot explain why but I have a big problem with the idea of prostitution. A I said earlier, aside from the women who work in NV and the illegal high price call girls out there, I seriously doubt that prostitution is a vocation of choice. I have heard it likened to human slavery. Selling ones body for a few dollars should not be required for anyone to get by.

I believe that when a woman makes the 'choice' to be a prostitute it does not fit the true meaning of a free choice. Drugs I have heard a re choice to 'feel good'. There typically is no up side to selling ones body. That is like offing me the choice of loosing my foot or my hand. Neither is a good choice and neither will be voluntary.

Perhaps it is hypocritical of me and I accept that. I believe in gray. I will be more than honored to be part of a group that tried to keep a woman from feeling compelled to sell her body for a few pieces of gold. Again, I am not talking about the folks in NV or the like. Those are regulated and the women are safe. They made a free choice, in so much as that can be a free choice.

Still waiting for you to point out my moral inconsistency.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I do not care about the revenue side of it as much as I care about the human side of it. If these are going to be regulated industries with health and safety regulations in place I may agree with you. With out it I believe it is a recipe for disaster.

I cannot explain why but I have a big problem with the idea of prostitution. A I said earlier, aside from the women who work in NV and the illegal high price call girls out there, I seriously doubt that prostitution is a vocation of choice. I have heard it likened to human slavery. Selling ones body for a few dollars should not be required for anyone to get by.

I believe that when a woman makes the 'choice' to be a prostitute it does not fit the true meaning of a free choice. Drugs I have heard a re choice to 'feel good'. There typically is no up side to selling ones body. That is like offing me the choice of loosing my foot or my hand. Neither is a good choice and neither will be voluntary.

Perhaps it is hypocritical of me and I accept that. I believe in gray. I will be more than honored to be part of a group that tried to keep a woman from feeling compelled to sell her body for a few pieces of gold. Again, I am not talking about the folks in NV or the like. Those are regulated and the women are safe. They made a free choice, in so much as that can be a free choice.

Still waiting for you to point out my moral inconsistency.

Re read this post for a start. Then substitute your statement of
"I cannot explain why but I have a big problem with the idea of prostitution"

"I cannot explain why but I have a big problem with the idea of Gay Marriage"! Now ponder the inconsistency of your views. Gay Marriage is all grand good and wonderful, then why not prostitution? You have a problem with sex workers making money? They know the risks when they enter the business after all these are unlikely to be Girl Scouts or Den Mothers we're talking about here. Coal miners, Loggers, Oil Filed Workers, Boxers are aware of the risks when they take the job.

When you believe in true Freedom & Liberty of the individual then along with that comes the sad fact that some will exercise their God given right to be stupid. Society has at its discretion the right to offer help or allow social Darwinism to be the arbiter of their fate. The price of Freedom is risk and responsibility. I'm "Pro-Choice" on everything!

 

[Ms Tree]

There is no moral inconsistency. You made no mention of prostitution when you made that comment so that would not have been what you were referring to. I already acknowledged that my disagreement with legalizing prostitution as an unregulated industry. You still have not clarified if you are advocating that there be health regulations that would govern this business. Given your hatred of anything government I suspect that you see no problem with people selling their bodies on the street. Beyond that, if you do not see the difference between being gay and being a prostitute then this conversation will go no where fast. And you say you don't hate.