Scheduling and the FAA

[ilg30/7]

Hey Sparky,

The company is in PHX desparate to negotiate as we speak.

Twelve days off min...that's great for starters!

These are the times I wish I were on the MEC....to me, this is a big ticket item for the company...huge...like tens of millions!

I actually have no idea if that's how its going to shake down. I can tell you that is how its done for US East's pilots, and was merely responding to your statement that seemed to indicate that f/a contract language precluded that solution.

 

[jimntx]

What the FAA has told US is that "on call" and "on duty" are the same thing...so if it is different at AA, my bet is it will change!
My guess is that legality will win out over contractual. If they can't cover trips without causing me as a RSV's to earn an illegal day...why should that 24 hour break even be counted in with my contracual days off?

As far as "on call" and "on duty" becoming the same...
From your lips to God's ears (as they say in Jerusalem).

I know that at AA if you actually get a 7-day legality day off, it does NOT count as one of your contractual days off.

Is there a chance I could get my hands on a copy of that letter that the FAA sent to you guys? There hasn't been a word about a change to the interpretation of on duty and on call from either the company or the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed (aka, the AApfa).

 

[SKY HIGH]

Seems to me the airlines are going to HAVE to "recall" and then start doing much more hiring...sea change, indeedy. The roster is about to get huge.B)
Yup. Dougie is going to have to open up the "bank".
Finally, there may now be an industry wide demand for pilots and f/as.

sky high states: "Johnny, we have a WINNER, TELL HER WHAT'S SHE'S WON!!!

Now Hiring
Flight Attendants For US Airways

Fly with US as a flight attendant! Applicants must be at least 20 years of age; have two years high volume face-to-face customer service experience; be willing to relocate at own expense and be based in Phoenix; subject to attendance/performance review. The next recruitment information session is scheduled for Wednesday, Sept. 20, 10 a.m. at the Clarion Hotel in Tucson, Ariz. (102 N. Alvernon Way) Applicants are required to be dressed in interview attire or Class A uniform.
If you are unable to attend this information session please view the Flight Attendant career opportunities on awaCompass or theHub for upcoming session dates and times.

 

[hp_fa]

While I am not opining on PitBull's prediction, PHX has been in a slow hire mode anyway. They first had to offer the East folks a position, but some slow hiring has been going on out West. If PHL and CLT start hiring, then I will fully agree PitBull is a winner.

 

[PITbull]

hp,

How can it be that the company is hiring off the street for PHX?

The MECs have agreed and the company is to comply that the "recall" list is first.

 

[Zarah]

I was on the furlough list and I received two offers to go to the AW side, which I declined. I thought the entire furlough list received this offer twice, but I could be wrong on that point. All I know for sure is that I received two offers prior to my recall to the East side. After I declined the second offer, the AW side did not have to offer the opportunity to me again.

Details about the AW opportunity for furloughed FAs can be found here http://www.afausairways.org/Restructure/TAfinal.doc

 

[Bear96]

What I am saying, friend...is that this creates leverage for the unions. If you don't see that "clearly", then all I can imagine is that you've never negotiated anything.

You must not have gotten the memo. Or have been asleep the past five years.

Airline unions have no leverage any more.

The few times they do manage to get any leverage, they never use it.

 

[Lovethesun]

Care to share the date you last flew a trip as a working F/A?
You managed to totally miss my simple point.

I wasn't disputing that this will or won't create a shortage of reserves. My point was that you are crazy if you think this change will somehow lead to both more F/As being recalled / hired, AND a raise.

As I said before WAIT AND SEE!!!!! Then you can eat your foot.

 

[Lovethesun]

Maybe I'm missing something or AA is getting away with murder also...however, FWIW

At AA, 'on duty' and 'on call' are not the same thing with a couple of exceptions.

The "six-day countdown toward a mandatory day off" starts with the first day you actually fly. If you sit at home on call, this does not count toward the six-day requirement.

Now our reserve system is different from yours, but say for instance, I have a line month in September and I am on reserve in October. I fly the last day of September and I am scheduled to be available for reserve assignment the first six days in October. Even if I am not used for 5 days, I still get that sixth day off because the block of "on call days" (what we call ready reserve) was preceded immediately by a day of flying.

If I don't fly the last day of September and I sit on ready reserve unused the first five days of October, they can give me a trip for the 6th and 7th (even though that was scheduled as a day off) as long as I am back at base by 12 noon on the 7th. My block of days off (let's say 3) then start 15 minutes after the end of the trip and "rolls" to that time on the 10th (which was supposed to be my next ready reserve day starting at midnight on the 9th). Trip ends at 10:45am on the 7th. Next "available day" begins at 11:00am on the 10th. They can, however, assign me a trip where I have to sign-in at 11:01am on the 10th.

R=Ready Reserve (on call)
X= Day off

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
R R R R R R X X X R R R R R

One of the things in our contract that "helps" the company is that we have 12 mandatory days off per reserve month; however, one of those days is Moveable. With 24 hours notice the company can move that day off anywhere on your schedule whether you agree or not. So, if I fly on 30Sep they will probably move my day off to one of those 1st 5 days so that I don't show a 7D (7-day legality) on my schedule.

At AA they are getting pretty good at avoiding giving f/as a 7-day legality day off. Mostly they create the reserve lines with fewer than 6 days straight "on call" so it would be impossible to occur. Something like 5 days on, 3 days off, 4 days on, 4 days, off, 5 days on, 3 days off, 4 days on, and off last 2 days of the month.

One of the things that I have noticed on reserve is that even schedulers sometimes confuse 30-in-7 (which is a contractual issue) restrictions and 7-day legality (which is an FAA issue).

BTW, as I understand it, the way AA does it has been fully blessed by the FAA in writing.

Go on the FAA's website and you will see the letter that was written in regards to Reserve's being on call and that being considered on duty by the FAA. If AA is not adhearing to the guidelines in the letter then they are also in violation of the FAR 121.467. No airline gets an exemption from this FAR. An FAR is an FAR and now that we are certified we also can be fined. The letter clearly states that a reserve by day 7 needs to have had a rest free of all contact from the company. Being on call sometimes from one month to the next for 15 days sucks and now that will finally not be acceptable any more. Our union has not protecting the reserves from the company violating this FAR. Instead they are grieving the fact that they do not get space positive for travel. Shame on them. And B.Babe you have known about this all along so you are up there with them. And as for Pitbull she is not here anymore so do not put her in the mix. She fought for reserves and blockholders in many ways and we thank her for it. M.F. and C.A. have been allowing the company to get away with this and that shows alot. The scary part is they are also the ones negotating our contract. HELP!

 

[IMisstheAladdinTrays]

Go on the FAA's website and you will see the letter that was written in regards to Reserve's being on call and that being considered on duty by the FAA. If AA is not adhearing to the guidelines in the letter then they are also in violation of the FAR 121.467. No airline gets an exemption from this FAR. An FAR is an FAR and now that we are certified we also can be fined. The letter clearly states that a reserve by day 7 needs to have had a rest free of all contact from the company. Being on call sometimes from one month to the next for 15 days sucks and now that will finally not be acceptable any more. Our union has not protecting the reserves from the company violating this FAR. Instead they are grieving the fact that they do not get space positive for travel. Shame on them. And B.Babe you have known about this all along so you are up there with them. And as for Pitbull she is not here anymore so do not put her in the mix. She fought for reserves and blockholders in many ways and we thank her for it. M.F. and C.A. have been allowing the company to get away with this and that shows alot. The scary part is they are also the ones negotating our contract. HELP!

I can't find it there...can you provide a link?

 

[PITbull]

You must not have gotten the memo. Or have been asleep the past five years.

Airline unions have no leverage any more.

The few times they do manage to get any leverage, they never use it.

Let's just see what happens here.

These are the times (and only times) I wish I were there!

 

[BajaBabe]

:down: :down: :down: Love the Sun I wish I knew what you were talking about. You actually think I would hide this information away from reserves......your wrong it was not a threat in the 2000 agreement. As per the information on this web site C.A. and M.F did have conversations with Rob Fuhr. What would be the gain for me Karma sucks . .... Its a good thing that the Sun shines on the wicked----Seneca

 

[hula-flyguy]

be careful lovethesun, you don't want to anger hoochey momma, you too may find yourself in the cross hairs of one of her spite campaigns.

 

[BajaBabe]

:down: :down: :down: I am not a hoochey ma ma. I am a very proud mother and wife. I have never used my God given gifts to gleam anything. So either play with intelligence and stop snipping and thrashing. Take a GOOD look around you and bring the group Together...............Novel Idea```````````

 

[hula-flyguy]

:down: :down: :down: I am not a hoochey ma ma. I am a very proud mother and wife. I have never used my God given gifts to gleam anything. So either play with intelligence and stop snipping and thrashing. Take a GOOD look around you and bring the group Together...............Novel Idea```````````

My bad! I didn't realize that I had to utilize a different set of rules than you. See, I thought I was free to use the same set of rules that you use when you attack YOUR coworkers and YOUR fellow officers. Silly me for not reallizing that you live by a seperate set of rules and a seperate set of standards. You have absolutely no problem calling people childish names and going out of your way to try to hurt them with the silly name callling, but the moment the tables are turned, the rules must changed.

Now my dear, continue to be a proud mother and wife, but realize that there is a distinct difference between being a good mother and a proud mother.