The changing rules of union certification

[LukeAisleWalker]

There will absolutely be an election, of course the timeframe continues to be undetermined.


probably when,

1. The NMB has successfully satisfied the request for a YES/NO ballot.

2. Some feel secure enough to finally proceed with an election.

3. Vocal Union advocates attempt to try and discredit enough of their colleagues.

Ah, a month away and I see nothing has changed.

As to:
#1. Correct....so why in your earlier post did you ask the question "How much longer can an election be delayed, due to a non-filing with an S.O.C. already in place is the interesting part to consider." ????
#2 If the NMB doesn't make a ruling for a Yes/No ballot, the union will probably never feel, as you like to term it, "secure." So they will just file...there would be no motivation or reason not to.
#3. It works both ways. Check out http://nowayafa.org/ and follow the Facebook link to the Discussion group. There you will find a plethora of postings by those with the following initials: D.B., K.J., with runners-up B.P., J.J., R.S and S.A. Talk about trying to discredit their colleagues! Talk about disrespect!! Other members and/or Admins of the site have been caught in lies, deceit, and have, in internal emails (under the thread title "Is Management Funding and Advising NOWAYAFA?") suggested to Mr. Anderson, Ms Smith and Ms Gordon that "laboratory conditions" may no longer be in place so DL should give PMDL f/a's a raise, lower our max duty day to coincide with NW's, give the 5th week of vacation back to those who lost it and more. All in an attempt to thwart the union drive. Our leaders were smart enough NOT to take the suggestion of this barely 2-year FA. (BTW, our VP IFS got back to his email within record time...just a few hours.)
Bottom line: There are less-than-savory and objectionable actions/attitudes from BOTH sides.

 

[Kev3188]

#3. It works both ways. Check out http://nowayafa.org/ and follow the Facebook link to the Discussion group.

Does Matt still post shirtless pics?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Does Matt still post shirtless pics?

Don't know; don't really care.
The hypocrisy over there is deafening though. And the saddest part is the fear of losing Adays (which won't happen--DL saves millions in unproductive Reserve Guarantee pay by not having a "straight" reserve program), fear of losing cushy "inside special assignment jobs", fear of LODs not having a sort of "super-seniority" in the event of layoffs and the general fear that has been instilled in them over the years of unions in general...these are all the primary motivators for the majority (not all) of these people. Fear is a powerful tool......and both sides, frankly, use it but the pro-AFA side actually has evidence (outsourcing---the issue they are most accused of in playing the fear card) per NW and Dougie a couple of years ago. Most of the NoWay crowd's fear cards appear to be imaginary--and very, very ME-oriented.

 

[Kev3188]

Don't know; don't really care.

LOL.

I didn't think you did, Luke; it was just a little droll wit. I would read the posts there for awhile, but it got old fast. Labor bias aside, I think the World Class group is doing much better at presenting themselves.

 

[Dignity]

Ah, a month away and I see nothing has changed.

As to:
#1. Correct....so why in your earlier post did you ask the question "How much longer can an election be delayed, due to a non-filing with an S.O.C. already in place is the interesting part to consider." ????

Oh, gee...just filing the space until someone makes a decision?

#2 If the NMB doesn't make a ruling for a Yes/No ballot, the union will probably never feel, as you like to term it, "secure." So they will just file...there would be no motivation or reason not to.

I would just imagine regardless of the final decision, they would have to file, this cannot go on indefinitely!

#3.

Three words to always remember in life!

Do not assume.

Unless you have specific names or reference.. an advocate... could be just oh... I dont know..."probably" anyone.

so don't automatically assume, it was those people you posted a link to...

Know what I'm saying?

 

[Dignity]

the pro-AFA side actually has evidence (outsourcing---the issue they are most accused of in playing the fear card)

To be fair here, the Pacific Division is not outsourced, never has been, as they always flew intra-Asia and of course interpreters to the US.

The AFA has no evidence of anything other than a proposal to try and "outsource" it was never implemented, so therefore you cannot use a proposal to state this was exactly what they planned to do, if in fact it did not happen.

Post 9-11, it just did not make one ounce of sense, but oh well that's just me.

When they announced, they proposed to outsource flying, some in the Union running around in circles, while a few of us thought it was a bluff was not really evidence of anything.

Sorry! but its just the way I see it, if someone falls for every line, then I know we are going to be in a mess.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

LOL.
Labor bias aside, I think the World Class group is doing much better at presenting themselves.

100% in agreement.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Sorry! but its just the way I see it, if someone falls for every line, then I know we are going to be in a mess.

Couldn't this be true also?

"Sorry! but its just the way I see it, if someone falls for every company line, then I know we are going to be in a mess."

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Three words to always remember in life!

Do not assume.

Unless you have specific names or reference.. an advocate... could be just oh... I dont know..."probably" anyone.

so don't automatically assume, it was those people you posted a link to...

Know what I'm saying?

No, I have absolutely no idea what you're saying. But it's not the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. You write in a code that only you and and maybe a few wombats could understand.

 

[Dignity]

No, I have absolutely no idea what you're saying. But it's not the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. You write in a code that only you and and maybe a few wombats could understand.

Luke,

That is just not nice at all!

Do you remember back in September when I wrote this.. after Jalbalpa came up with that poll and of course I was just tossing ideas around...

yes.. I think it should change going forward to a YES/NO vote and while they are changing the process in Congress..it should also including the ability to vote out the union or keep the union on the property.. after a certain time period such as, every four years or the conclusion of a contract timeframe.. having another automatic election.

example:

the union negotiates a three year contract, at the end of the three year contract, the members have the ability.. to have another election determining if they (union) will continue to negotiate the next one. if the members choose to continue representation after that election, the previous contract will remain in place until the next negotiated contract..if the members choose to not continue representation, the union is decertified.

(that way if a union is not effective, there would be an option to re-evaluate and dismiss their services or continue)

just like every other democratic election in this country.

Remember that whole thread that was being discussed and how I sort of thought a YES/NO ballot must be on both ends, and then thought it would also be a good option to have that on the other end to vote the Union off the property with another election!

Well Luke, let me tell you.... it appears that wasn't received well in that thread at all!

The levels some people try to go, sometimes,

Shessh!

I don't have any idea why it would have been a problem.

I thought it made sense..



I do not really understand why anyone would have an issue with that, but of course who knows?


Luke,

You were once so pleasant what changed?



Dignity

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Luke,

That is just not nice at all!

Do you remember back in September when I wrote this.. after Jalbalpa came up with that poll and of course I was just tossing ideas around...



Remember that whole thread that was being discussed and how I sort of thought a YES/NO ballot must be on both ends, and then thought it would also be a good option to have that on the other end to vote the Union off the property with another election!

Well Luke, let me tell you.... it appears that wasn't received well in that thread at all!

The levels some people try to go, sometimes,

Shessh!

I don't have any idea why it would have been a problem.

I thought it made sense..



I do not really understand why anyone would have an issue with that, but of course who knows?


Luke,

You were once so pleasant what changed?



Dignity

Dignity,
I apologize. I was tired when I wrote that. You are correct. We should all try to be more respectful. Also, I guess it's the intersection of a certain amount of passion mixed with a weariness of the very topic you are (or once were) passionate about.
Hope you have a great day and thanks for calling me out...I will admit I need it sometimes

 

[cooper43]

Forgive me for not reading all of the past post as I have been away from the board for awhile. What is the latest on when the decision from the NMB will be annonced?

 

[700UW]

New York DOL Orders Delta to Pay Up

Tue. January 12, 2010

The value and power of an IAM contract was on prominent display in a recent ruling from the New York State Department of Labor (DOL), settling a dispute over how often IAM members at Northwest Airlines in New York would be paid.

The dispute began when Delta management notified IAM members at Kennedy and LaGuardia airports that starting January 1, 2010, all Northwest employees would be paid every two weeks, to bring them in line with Delta employees. For years, Northwest’s IAM members in New York State have been paid weekly, in accordance with their contract and New York State law.

Delta requested a waiver from the New York State DOL to pay Northwest employees less frequently, a move that would allow Delta to pocket all the accumulated interest in the workers' wages. The airline has such a waiver for pre-merger Delta employees.

Under New York state law, if the affected employees are represented by a union, a waiver cannot be granted unless their union agrees. Accordingly, the IAM Legal Department notified the New York State Department of Labor that the Machinists union would not agree to any waiver. In late December, the New York State DOL ordered Delta to continue paying Northwest IAM members as they have always been paid, on a weekly basis.

In the absence of a legally binding contract, Delta would be free to set wages, benefits and working conditions as they see fit, without any input from employees. In this case, the only difference between money in Delta’s pocket or money in the workers’ pockets, was their union contract. Case closed.

 

[700UW]

The National Mediation Board (NMB) has announced the dates for a union representation election for flight simulator technicians (Sim Techs) at Delta Air Lines. The NMB will mail voting instructions to eligible voters on February 3, 2010, and tabulate votes on February 25, 2010. Voting will be conducted electronically by phone and through the Internet. Nearly 100 Sim Techs are based in Minneapolis, MN, and Atlanta, GA. They operate and maintain Delta’s flight simulators.

“In spite of opposition from Delta Air Lines, the National Mediation Board has scheduled the first IAM representation election following the merger of Delta and Northwest Airlines,â€￾ said IAM General Vice President Robert Roach, Jr. “Delta Sim Techs now have the right to choose for themselves if they want a union to help improve their working conditions at Delta Air Lines.â€￾

The IAM’s application was filed on August 13, 2009, but the process was delayed while Delta argued that Sim Techs should be included in Delta’s currently un-represented mechanic and related classification. The NMB rejected Delta’s claims.

“If Delta had been successful in combining Sim Techs with mechanics, Northwest Sim Techs would have lost their union contract without a vote, and Delta Sim Techs would have been denied an opportunity to make up their own minds about union representation,â€￾ said Roach. “Delta’s aggressive stance to prevent an election shows they are afraid of what their employees can achieve when acting collectively.â€￾

 

[bullterrier]

The National Mediation Board (NMB) has announced the dates for a union representation election for flight simulator technicians (Sim Techs) at Delta Air Lines. The NMB will mail voting instructions to eligible voters on February 3, 2010, and tabulate votes on February 25, 2010. Voting will be conducted electronically by phone and through the Internet. Nearly 100 Sim Techs are based in Minneapolis, MN, and Atlanta, GA. They operate and maintain Delta’s flight simulators.

“In spite of opposition from Delta Air Lines, the National Mediation Board has scheduled the first IAM representation election following the merger of Delta and Northwest Airlines,†said IAM General Vice President Robert Roach, Jr. “Delta Sim Techs now have the right to choose for themselves if they want a union to help improve their working conditions at Delta Air Lines.â€

The IAM’s application was filed on August 13, 2009, but the process was delayed while Delta argued that Sim Techs should be included in Delta’s currently un-represented mechanic and related classification. The NMB rejected Delta’s claims.

“If Delta had been successful in combining Sim Techs with mechanics, Northwest Sim Techs would have lost their union contract without a vote, and Delta Sim Techs would have been denied an opportunity to make up their own minds about union representation,†said Roach. “Delta’s aggressive stance to prevent an election shows they are afraid of what their employees can achieve when acting collectively.â€

Could you please post a link to your quotes?