The changing rules of union certification

[southwind]

south,
Are you going to have the chance to participate in the voting process of electing/not electing representation?

Not in the IAM/AFA vote. Your not insinuating that if I'm not "Participating" in the voting process that I shouldn't concern myself with these matters , are you ?

Because I said it once and I'll say it again, whatever affects Delta, good or bad. affects me !

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Not in the IAM/AFA vote. Your not insinuating that if I'm not "Participating" in the voting process that I shouldn't concern myself with these matters , are you ?

Because I said it once and I'll say it again, whatever affects Delta, good or bad. affects me !

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


--Reinhold Niebuhr

 

[southwind]

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


--Reinhold Niebuhr

Hope you feel better now.

 

[bagboy]

So the union controls when the whole process starts by deciding when to apply for a representational investigation (and submitting cards along with the application). Once that is done, the NMB sets the process in motion which eventually results in the election.

Jim

Does the union have to apply? Do we still need to do a card drive or since NW is already represented, does a single certificate initiate the vote. They all seem connected to me.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Hope you feel better now.

and I hope you get the message!

 

[southwind]

and I hope you get the message!

What ? That only pro-union peeps are allowed to post here ? :down:

 

[BABABOOY]

The one fact that is true in the delay of the vote is that if Delta management were half as good as they pay themselves for, the single certificate and union vote would/should have been done months ago.

Did you really read this before you posted it? Really? Have you not read anything at all
that has been written about this merger over the last 14 months? Have you not seen
for youself the speed of this merger? There has been some crazy things written on
here but this takes the cake. Take the blinders off, and pick up a news paper or business
Magazine (The Wall street Journal or the FT or Business Week come to mind)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Does the union have to apply? Do we still need to do a card drive or since NW is already represented, does a single certificate initiate the vote. They all seem connected to me.

Somebody has to apply to have an election (or technically an investigation since the form is titled 'Request for Representational Investigation'). The only exception that I know of is when both sides are already represented by the same union (like the DL & NW pilots). Technically an individual could file the application, as long as it's whoever wishes to represent the group.

Yes, authorization cards are still needed and must be filed along with the application. As I recall, fewer cards are needed - 35% of the affected combined group vs 50%.

What you may be thinking of is an NMB ruling that a single transportation system exists. In mergers, that is the first step in the NMB's investigation and can be requested as a stand-alone decision or be the first step of the investigation. Having a single ops certificate issued removes all doubt that a single transportation system exists, effectively making that step moot.

The single certificate is strictly a FAA matter while the representational election process is strictly an NMB process. One has no effect on the other.

Jim

 

[bagboy]

Somebody has to apply to have an election (or technically an investigation since the form is titled 'Request for Representational Investigation'). The only exception that I know of is when both sides are already represented by the same union (like the DL & NW pilots). Technically an individual could file the application, as long as it's whoever wishes to represent the group.

Yes, authorization cards are still needed and must be filed along with the application. As I recall, fewer cards are needed - 35% of the affected combined group vs 50%.

What you may be thinking of is an NMB ruling that a single transportation system exists. In mergers, that is the first step in the NMB's investigation and can be requested as a stand-alone decision or be the first step of the investigation. Having a single ops certificate issued removes all doubt that a single transportation system exists, effectively making that step moot.

The single certificate is strictly a FAA matter while the representational election process is strictly an NMB process. One has no effect on the other.

Jim

Roger

 

[bagboy]

Roger

So if no one asks for a vote, do the NWA contracts go poof after they run out?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Interesting, if hypothetical, question. Under the RLA contracts don't expire but become amendable, so the NW contracts wouldn't "run out" in the sense of going away because of the merger. I suppose that the AFA and IAM could continue to represent the PMNW employees they currently represent while the equivalent PMDL employees would be unrepresented, but that's just a guess. With all hiring being done at DL, attrition would ultimately result in no union for that employee group when the last PMNW employee left the company (although the union would undoubtedly relinquish it's role before that).

In some unions, there are represented employees at some locations but not at others but I can't think of an example under the RLA.

I don't claim it as fact, but I believe that there's a provision that a union can basically be appointed as the representative in a merger, but only if the combined employee group is already predominately represented by that union and that isn't the case here (at least for the FA's, I don't know the relative number of employees for the IAM). In other words, if 1000 employees on one side are represented by XYA union, and only 100 on the other side are unrepresented then the NMB can grant XYA authority to represent all 1100 employees.

Given the amount of dues money involved, I doubt that there will be no election. The question is when and not if.

Jim

 

[700UW]

On December 22, 2009, the National Mediation Board (NMB) granted the IAM’s request to declare that Delta and Northwest Airlines’ flight simulator technicians (Sim Techs) are operating as a single carrier.

The ruling sets the stage for a representation election among the nearly 300 Sim Techs. Additionally, the NMB agreed with the IAM’s arguments that the Sim Techs were their own separate and distinct classification and, therefore, eligible for their own representation election independent of other classifications.

The IAM’s application was filed on August 13, 2009, but the process was delayed because Delta had argued that flight simulator technicians should be included in the currently un-represented mechanic and related classification. The NMB rejected Delta’s claims and found that both Northwest and Delta have historically treated their Sim Techs as a separate craft or class apart from their mechanic and related employees.

If Delta had been successful in mixing the Sim Techs with mechanics, the Northwest Sim Techs would have lost their union representation without a vote and Delta Sim Techs would have lost an opportunity to make up their own minds about union representation.

“Delta tried to prevent Sim Techs from voting on whether or not they want to be represented by the Machinists union,†said Transportation GVP Robert Roach, Jr. “Nobody knows what is best for Delta employees other than the employees themselves. Delta tried to silence the Sim Techs, but the IAM fought so they could have the opportunity to make a choice.†The NMB will now investigate, finalize a list of eligible voters and set an election date. Eligible voters will receive voting instructions directly from the NMB mailed to the last address they had on file with their company. Voting will be conducted by telephone and through the Internet.

An application requesting a single carrier ruling for the combined airlines’ security guards was also filed on August 13, 2009, but the NMB has not yet made a determination in that case. The IAM will file single carrier applications for fleet service, customer service and stock clerks when Delta and Northwest are operating as a single carrier for each of those classifications’ representation purposes. Each classification must have a separate single carrier ruling before an election can take place for that classification.

 

[Dignity]

So if no one asks for a vote, do the NWA contracts go poof after they run out?

I do not think any of the agreements will go away until the group affected, has made a decision how to proceed after the conclusion of an election.

How much longer can an election be delayed, due to a non-filing with an S.O.C. already in place is
the interesting part to consider.

 

[Dignity]

Given the amount of dues money involved, I doubt that there will be no election. The question is when and not if.

There will absolutely be an election, of course the timeframe continues to be undetermined.

The question is when and not if.

probably when,

1. The NMB has successfully satisfied the request for a YES/NO ballot.

2. Some feel secure enough to finally proceed with an election.

3. Vocal Union advocates attempt to try and discredit enough of their colleagues.

 

[BoeingBoy]

How much longer can an election be delayed, due to a non-filing with an S.O.C. already in place is the interesting part to consider.

As far as I recall without going back through the NMB's representation manual there is no magic cut-off at some time after the SOC is issued by the FAA. Technically the SOC has no effect on the NMB's procedures - those still start with an investigation of whether a "single transportation system" exists for the class/craft of employees involved (which itself can be requested separately or occurs as the first step in the process when a request for a representational election is made). Having the SOC makes the NMB's determination that a "single transportation system" exists easier but the SOC doesn't force an election or start a clock running. Just remember that SOC = FAA while STS/Representation = NMB and that the two are completely separate.

The NMB does NOT issue a certification or dismissal until the votes are counted. At that point, and that point only, is the entire employee group represented by a union or unrepresented. Until the NMB certifies a union as the representative of the entire class/craft or dismisses the application for a representational election, the status quo exists - very similiar to some companies under the NLRA where employees at one plant may be unionized but the equivalent employees at another plant remain non-union.

Anyone really interested in the minutia of all this really should read the NMB's manual and maybe even the RLA. I know the representation manual is available on the NMB's website and I'm pretty sure that the RLA is also. You'll find such thing as exceptions to the 2nd paragraph - primarily when a merger involves very disparate numbers of employees in the same craft/class. The NMB can certify a union as the representative of the entire group based on authorization cards only, but we're talking about much bigger differences in numbers than exist in this merger.

Jim