TWU attempts to raid AMFA AMT's

[Overspeed]

Last time I checked UPS and FEDEX didn't employ flight attendants.
Let's compare apples to apples.
AMT wages and benefits at passenger airlines.
AMFA vs TWU.

You lose.

Lets compare good paying jobs lost. You lose. AMFA had over 20,000 members in 2004. Where did they all go? Are they all making the same or more as they were prior to losing their jobs to outsourcing? No. In fact most of them left the industry. Delle sure enjoyed that $500K plus goodbye retirement package he got when he left AMFA. What did all those members that believed his BS all those years and lost their jobs get?

The point is under the same conditions at the same airline the TWU has done far better at Southwest than AMFA. Again, if you had just maintained status quo AMTs to aircraft Southwest should have about 800 AMTs more than you have currently. You sold your members out by not locking in a percentage of work or dollars in house. Future work can go up but you only locked in a number of lines or a head count. AMFA didn't fight outsourcing at AS or UA when they had a scope clause in effect outside of BK. AMFA has a proven track record of rolling over on overhaul. So you can say you have the highest pay per AMT but the AMFA philosophy is to give away work to do it. What about some kind of balance? Your all or nothing mentality has driven the loss of over 80% of your membership. That's a big lose brother.

 

[Bob Owens]

Lets compare good paying jobs lost. You lose. AMFA had over 20,000 members in 2004. Where did they all go? Are they all making the same or more as they were prior to losing their jobs to outsourcing? No. In fact most of them left the industry.

Well, some are still there, some retired and left the industry, some just left the industry, some went to the IBT, and some went to other carriers, pretty much the same thing that happened with the 18000 TWU mechanics that are down to around 10,000 and according to Gless going below 8000 within a few years. So why was it neccessary for us to give up half our pay if we are going to lose half the jobs as well?

 

[Bob Owens]

OS, its apparent whats going on here. Does anyone think that mechanics who are making over $40/hr with excellent benefits and an 8% match on the 401K are going to decertify their union in favor of one that just signed a six year deal that establishes a new low for the industry, on back of a nine year deal that did the same? No, it aint gonna happen. If anyrthing, if the guys from WN were unhappy then why wouldnt they simply go back to the IBT? So what is this really all about? Are the Teamsters complaining that they are spending all this money trying to fend off AMFA for the TWU while they do nothing? Did they demand that the TWU at least try and start a decertificcation drive to keep AMFA busy? Did they tell the TWU they need to put some capital into this?

From what I've heard and from what I read we have IBT guys knocking on TWU mechanics doors and TWU guys knocking on WN mechanics doors. Ok, how did these two unions, one who is supposedly raiding the other, get the addresses to know which doors to knock on? Its obvious.

The strategy must be if they start a drive to decertify at WN they will use that as something to try and discourage guys from filling out AMFA cards. OK I get it, how effective that will be my guess is not very. Sad to think that their strategy to keep their members resolves around decieving them. Some say that it will cause AMFA to divert resources to fend off the drive there. I dont think so since historically they have never really invested much in organizing, all the drives have been lead by unpaid volunteers inside the carriers where the drives are occuring.

What I really find dissapointing is this in fact diverts TWU resources from addressing what they need to address. What is the most dangerous thing facing all airline workers today? Outsourcing? No, Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.

Arent you the one who consistantly blames C-11 for us being at the bottom of the industry?

So what are we doing about it? Surely there is value to being affiliated with the AFL-CIo isnt there? Value to helping Obama get elected for a second term? So here we are sitting at the bottom of the industry as the law that you claim is responsible for putting us at the very bottom of the industry continues to go unchallenged. There is nothing stopping USAIR, UAL, Delta and AA from doing the same thing each and every round of contract talks, drag out talks for six years then filing under C-11 and getting the court to alow them to impose what they want. Instead we are paying people to try and raid WN, why not UPS as well?

Before this rediculousness came out I wrote a letter to Jim Little saying that the airline Unions in the AFL-CIO should concentrate all their political power of reforming the law , that we either be treated as Rail workers under 1167 or treated the same as workers under the NLRA. I pointed out how the status quo which allows airlines to impose new terms while at the same time restricts our right to self help devalues Union membership. That mechanics at Jet Blue and Delta earn a lot more than we do without a union. That the TWU had nothing that would sway mechanics there to become TWU members. I criticized the decsion to divert all the politiical capital they had with the first Obama election into reforming the NMB rules for elections, citing the fact that despite the flaws in the law the airlines still became one of the most heavily unionized industries out there and despite getting what they wanted the Union elections at Delta still failed.

So here we are sitting at the very bottom of the industry, there are two card drives from two non-AFL-CIO affilated Unions out there and what does the TWU decide to do? Try and raid WN. Ok that makes a lot of sense. Thats really going to help members at AA. NOT.

Instead of starting a move within the AFL-CIO to educate the public as to what should be our grievance against the unfair, unequal application of C-11 against airline workers and showing the members that affiliation has value they decide to try and raid WN. (I say should because I have yet to hear Little or any other top Union official criticize the way the law singles out airline workers). Why not try and raid UPS as well? They have the lowest mechanic to airplane ratio in the industry dont they? The IBT is raiding at AA arent they? That would make just as much sense as going after WN. They could cite to the workers in Tulsa and Title II that there are TWU drives at both WN and UPS because the mechanics there are sick of earning top of the industery wages while most of their overhaul is outsourced right? UPS has even fewer mechanic than WN dont they, they should be even easier to get cards from right?

Is it any wonder why there are card drives at AA?

Maybe, if the TWU were to put the welfare of members first instead of dues there would not be any card drives. Maybe if they started going after the laws that cripple us, instead of trying to make it easier for Unions to get more members they may find that the people will find a way to get into a union, no matter what the laws say, if they see sufficient benefits to being in one. After all the labor movement was founded in illegality, the government considered them to be illegal conspiracies. Maybe they should show us how being in the AFL-CIO would get us the support we need to get this injustice rectified.

Lets face it, here in New York we are the lowest paid mechanics on the airport, and we pay $700 a year for that. Given the option how many current TWU mechanics would continue to pay dues if they didnt have to? If thats the way many current members feel then why would people who are earning more and are not in a union want one? Your arguement of having more coworkers at the expense of wages falls on deaf ears when you are talking to the people who actually have to work for less so their employer can hire more. Maybe if they at least saw the TWU fighting against the laws that they told us screwed us that would change.Maybe its time to "fight like hell" agisnt the laws that cripple us instead of fighting with other Unions.

We need to stop wasting time, money and resources on ill fated organizing drives like at Delta, Virgin and now WN and use the members dues on initiatives that will benefit dues payers. We need to fix the Bankruptcy laws and the NMB process that now delays negotiations for years.

 

[1AA]

OK now wait for it..... The Spin on Bobs post.
Overspeed your next.

 

[Overspeed]

OS, its apparent whats going on here. Does anyone think that mechanics who are making over $40/hr with excellent benefits and an 8% match on the 401K are going to decertify their union in favor of one that just signed a six year deal that establishes a new low for the industry, on back of a nine year deal that did the same? No, it aint gonna happen. If anyrthing, if the guys from WN were unhappy then why wouldnt they simply go back to the IBT? So what is this really all about? Are the Teamsters complaining that they are spending all this money trying to fend off AMFA for the TWU while they do nothing? Did they demand that the TWU at least try and start a decertificcation drive to keep AMFA busy? Did they tell the TWU they need to put some capital into this?

From what I've heard and from what I read we have IBT guys knocking on TWU mechanics doors and TWU guys knocking on WN mechanics doors. Ok, how did these two unions, one who is supposedly raiding the other, get the addresses to know which doors to knock on? Its obvious.

The strategy must be if they start a drive to decertify at WN they will use that as something to try and discourage guys from filling out AMFA cards. OK I get it, how effective that will be my guess is not very. Sad to think that their strategy to keep their members resolves around decieving them. Some say that it will cause AMFA to divert resources to fend off the drive there. I dont think so since historically they have never really invested much in organizing, all the drives have been lead by unpaid volunteers inside the carriers where the drives are occuring.

What I really find dissapointing is this in fact diverts TWU resources from addressing what they need to address. What is the most dangerous thing facing all airline workers today? Outsourcing? No, Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.

Arent you the one who consistantly blames C-11 for us being at the bottom of the industry?

So what are we doing about it? Surely there is value to being affiliated with the AFL-CIo isnt there? Value to helping Obama get elected for a second term? So here we are sitting at the bottom of the industry as the law that you claim is responsible for putting us at the very bottom of the industry continues to go unchallenged. There is nothing stopping USAIR, UAL, Delta and AA from doing the same thing each and every round of contract talks, drag out talks for six years then filing under C-11 and getting the court to alow them to impose what they want. Instead we are paying people to try and raid WN, why not UPS as well?

Before this rediculousness came out I wrote a letter to Jim Little saying that the airline Unions in the AFL-CIO should concentrate all their political power of reforming the law , that we either be treated as Rail workers under 1167 or treated the same as workers under the NLRA. I pointed out how the status quo which allows airlines to impose new terms while at the same time restricts our right to self help devalues Union membership. That mechanics at Jet Blue and Delta earn a lot more than we do without a union. That the TWU had nothing that would sway mechanics there to become TWU members. I criticized the decsion to divert all the politiical capital they had with the first Obama election into reforming the NMB rules for elections, citing the fact that despite the flaws in the law the airlines still became one of the most heavily unionized industries out there and despite getting what they wanted the Union elections at Delta still failed.

So here we are sitting at the very bottom of the industry, there are two card drives from two non-AFL-CIO affilated Unions out there and what does the TWU decide to do? Try and raid WN. Ok that makes a lot of sense. Thats really going to help members at AA. NOT.

Instead of starting a move within the AFL-CIO to educate the public as to what should be our grievance against the unfair, unequal application of C-11 against airline workers and showing the members that affiliation has value they decide to try and raid WN. (I say should because I have yet to hear Little or any other top Union official criticize the way the law singles out airline workers). Why not try and raid UPS as well? They have the lowest mechanic to airplane ratio in the industry dont they? The IBT is raiding at AA arent they? That would make just as much sense as going after WN. They could cite to the workers in Tulsa and Title II that there are TWU drives at both WN and UPS because the mechanics there are sick of earning top of the industery wages while most of their overhaul is outsourced right? UPS has even fewer mechanic than WN dont they, they should be even easier to get cards from right?

Is it any wonder why there are card drives at AA?

Maybe, if the TWU were to put the welfare of members first instead of dues there would not be any card drives. Maybe if they started going after the laws that cripple us, instead of trying to make it easier for Unions to get more members they may find that the people will find a way to get into a union, no matter what the laws say, if they see sufficient benefits to being in one. After all the labor movement was founded in illegality, the government considered them to be illegal conspiracies. Maybe they should show us how being in the AFL-CIO would get us the support we need to get this injustice rectified.

Lets face it, here in New York we are the lowest paid mechanics on the airport, and we pay $700 a year for that. Given the option how many current TWU mechanics would continue to pay dues if they didnt have to? If thats the way many current members feel then why would people who are earning more and are not in a union want one? Your arguement of having more coworkers at the expense of wages falls on deaf ears when you are talking to the people who actually have to work for less so their employer can hire more. Maybe if they at least saw the TWU fighting against the laws that they told us screwed us that would change.Maybe its time to "fight like hell" agisnt the laws that cripple us instead of fighting with other Unions.

We need to stop wasting time, money and resources on ill fated organizing drives like at Delta, Virgin and now WN and use the members dues on initiatives that will benefit dues payers. We need to fix the Bankruptcy laws and the NMB process that now delays negotiations for years.

Bob,
Let's end the address conspiracy here. Have you ever seen a seniority list from another airline? Are there names on it? Well did you know your information is accessible if you have an A&P license from the FAA?

The others I can't answer for but I am not going to lock up my food and place foil on the walls because you have an active imagination.

We would not be the bottom of the industry had we accepted the May 2010 deal and you know it. The Tech Specs and Dispatchers listened to the Int'l and went through BK with no pay, holiday, or VC cuts. Instead you and your buddies stated very clearly that let's keep "fighting", vote no, and get a better deal. Why? Because you clearly communicated that the BK discussion prior to Nov 2011 was a scare tactic that the company pushed to get us to settle and the Int'l perpetuated to keep their dues flowing in. Well that blew up in your face didn't it? Now we are at the near the bottom in wages in the industry because we "fought". Kind of like the AMFA mentality where they keep "fight" like at NW, AS, and UA and lose close to 80% of their member's jobs in the process.

Let's look at what the TWU had managed to do in BK. We avoided pay cuts, we kept the majority of our work in-house, and we protected future work. Neither AMFA or the IAM were able to do this in BK's at UA, NW, and US. In fact the post BK agreement AMFA got at UA was worse than the one the IAM had before AMFA got in. The facts do speak for themselves Bob, they show that while the TWU membership did get hammered, they were nowhere near hammered like the members at the other carriers that AMFA, IBT, and IAM represent. UA/CO, US, and DL now have finally passed the TWU after 8 to 9 years post BK. It is complete BS to compare a contract negotiated 9 years out of BK to AA's current BK and the wages we have now. The point should be what was the percentage of jobs and pay AMFA and the IAM gave up. A lot more and you know it. The members at AMFA and IAM got hammered way more than we did. You keep trying to speak like you know we would have gotten more if we held out and the answer is clearly that was highly unlikely given the past airline BK's. The judge does not care what the other companies pay, he only cares about what keeps the company viable and have an ability to pay back its creditors.

The fact remains that if the argument is to sacrifice jobs future and current - the AMFA style - in favor of pay then when is enough, enough? Keep letting work get outsourced so the ones on the inside can make more. AMFA is not doing anything about the amount of work growing outside their private little clubhouse is being surrounded by an ever growing outsourced job field that is a growing threat to US union jobs.

They are moving AA because they need money to pay their Nat'l officers (who are conducting a revote because their group got voted out) and Seham is worried about buying his Hugo Boss suits and S class Mercedes.

 

[swamt]

The point is that TWU represents workers at WN who are paid higher than anyone and AMFA at WN is behind several at UPS and FedEx. When you put the TWU on equal footing with AMFA at WN, the TWU wins!

AMFA at UA resulted in all of airframe overhaul being lost to outsourcing. AMFA at AS resulted in all overhaul being outsourced. AMFA at NW resulted in all but two stations getting outsourced. AMFA at DL? They said no thanks.

LOL... FedEx mechs are not above SWA mechs in pay or bennies. The only airline the SWA mechs are behind is UPS. However, SWA is the highest pay passenger airlines mechs. TWU screde their members during the integration negos. The TWU did not get the dispatchers their current contract, an arbitrator did so and made the co compare them to UPS's dispatchers pay parity, and these are the 2 reasons why SWA dispatchers are being paid that rate. Just ask the TWU members (any and all TWU groups represented on SWA property) during the SWA/AirTran senoirity negos who did better.
Now what about all the jobs being lost right now, currently, as we speek, at AA that the TWU "AGREED TO", YES "AGREED TO" and set out to to rah rah and sell such job losses to the members!!! BTW AMFA has never agreed to job losses, or outsoursing, nor have they ever campained to sell out it's membership as the TWU has at AA.
AMFA actually did better in BK with UAL protections, read the contracts, read the dates, and you wll also see that it was the IAM the sold the 2 maint bases away, noot AMFA. AMFA wasn't even certified as the representational representative union until after they were "agreed" to be closed down.
I am not sure about AS, but I do know they are they 2nd highest paid passenger airliner out there currently. I know AMFA didn't agree to any kind of job losses or outsoursing like the TWU has at AA. NEVER!!!
It was all do to the teamsters contracts at SWA that allowed all the outsoursing at SWA. Once AMFA was certified and took over, they have been closing alot of loop holes the teamsters left wide open for the co to do as they wish. AMFA has installed limitations, head count, no lay-off's, more maint lines, and more mechanics in the 8-9 years (will be 10 in Jan 2013) that AMFA has been here, compared to the dimisal 28 years the teamsters were here and only had 2 lines of heavy in Dallas. AMFA's secong line will start next year (March), as well as mod lines coming, more "C" check lines in other stations, 717 work coming in house (directly due to AMFA's language).
The TWU did get alot of maint to return in house some years ago. However, over the past 30 years you guys have been giving pay, bennies, and jobs. Now your TWU is agreeing to outsoursing, job losses, pay cuts, loss of all kinds of bennies, reductions to vac, hol ect... No thanks brother. We don't want the TWU. And if you guys (for some reason) don't bring AMFA in, you better keep the TWU; as bad as they are, they are better than being represented by the teamsters--Trust us!!

 

[1AA]

Nice try OverSPIN but the real outcome will be how many cards will the SWA guys sign.
My prediction is less than what the teamsters tried for a run off election.
Less than 200. Probably more like 2. The amount of interest by cards signed tells the real story. That is the bottom line. Ex AA guys over at SWA informing them of the TWU and their ways of lies and deceit. That will end the raid rather quickly.
A AMFA filing will happen soon. Why else is the TWU resorting to new lows?
DESPERATION of losing the CA$H COW.
2013 will bring a much overdue needed change for the AMT's.
Then comes UAL/CAL. The momentum is increasing for the Craft.
What is increasing for you? Your Weight?

BTW, the TWU claims that AMFA membership is on the decline so why bother with a small group? Not much dues money there. Why not go after the big bucks. UAL/CAL or Delta perhaps. 2013 can not come fast enough.

 

[swamt]

Bob,
Let's end the address conspiracy here. Have you ever seen a seniority list from another airline? Are there names on it? Well did you know your information is accessible if you have an A&P license from the FAA?

The others I can't answer for but I am not going to lock up my food and place foil on the walls because you have an active imagination.

We would not be the bottom of the industry had we accepted the May 2010 deal and you know it. The Tech Specs and Dispatchers listened to the Int'l and went through BK with no pay, holiday, or VC cuts. Instead you and your buddies stated very clearly that let's keep "fighting", vote no, and get a better deal. Why? Because you clearly communicated that the BK discussion prior to Nov 2011 was a scare tactic that the company pushed to get us to settle and the Int'l perpetuated to keep their dues flowing in. Well that blew up in your face didn't it? Now we are at the near the bottom in wages in the industry because we "fought". Kind of like the AMFA mentality where they keep "fight" like at NW, AS, and UA and lose close to 80% of their member's jobs in the process.

Let's look at what the TWU had managed to do in BK. We avoided pay cuts, we kept the majority of our work in-house, and we protected future work. Neither AMFA or the IAM were able to do this in BK's at UA, NW, and US. In fact the post BK agreement AMFA got at UA was worse than the one the IAM had before AMFA got in. The facts do speak for themselves Bob, they show that while the TWU membership did get hammered, they were nowhere near hammered like the members at the other carriers that AMFA, IBT, and IAM represent. UA/CO, US, and DL now have finally passed the TWU after 8 to 9 years post BK. It is complete BS to compare a contract negotiated 9 years out of BK to AA's current BK and the wages we have now. The point should be what was the percentage of jobs and pay AMFA and the IAM gave up. A lot more and you know it. The members at AMFA and IAM got hammered way more than we did. You keep trying to speak like you know we would have gotten more if we held out and the answer is clearly that was highly unlikely given the past airline BK's. The judge does not care what the other companies pay, he only cares about what keeps the company viable and have an ability to pay back its creditors.

The fact remains that if the argument is to sacrifice jobs future and current - the AMFA style - in favor of pay then when is enough, enough? Keep letting work get outsourced so the ones on the inside can make more. AMFA is not doing anything about the amount of work growing outside their private little clubhouse is being surrounded by an ever growing outsourced job field that is a growing threat to US union jobs.

They are moving AA because they need money to pay their Nat'l officers (who are conducting a revote because their group got voted out) and Seham is worried about buying his Hugo Boss suits and S class Mercedes.

That's all you do is repeat yourself over and over and over again hoping someone will believe you AND, you are just hoping that we will get tired of reading your post and constantly having to fix your postings. Don't worry, everyone out here knows you well by now. AMFA hasn't gave up any jobs as you claim. The TWU has agreed to the loss of jobs. Not only agreed but ran out and pushed, and rah rahed, and sold it to their membership. AMFA has NEVER done this sir, NEVER!! AMFA would never endorse what the TWU has recently agreed ro with the company, NEVER.
Once again the National election was re-done do to DOL laws being broke during the campaign. Not because the officers were voted out. The National was looking at an investigation by outsiders that if found to have broken such laws would have been looking at fines and charges. AND as I have said before, the investigation was done by the AMFA National 2 members left that the election did not affect. It was not done by the DOL as, I think, Anomaly tried to say before. It was all handled in house and settled in house as per the DOL laws.
And now you don't want to compare certain BK contracts nego 8-9 years ago. Your wrong. They are very comparable b/c the company is doing that very exact same thing, comparing to all the other BK's and trying to outdue the other BK's, which the TWU has done a fine job of outdoing all of them, as far as the entire package is concern, Pay cuts, loss of jobs, outsoursing, loss of retirement bennies, frozen pensions, displacement of members involentary, loss of bennies, vac, f/h personal days ect... As history has shown the TWU has been the leader of concessions for well over 35 years by the end of your current concessions contract that the wonderfull TWU has "AGREED TO" as well as promoted, encouraged, pushed, and sold to the membership once again, just like 2003, 1993 and 1983. Over 3 decades of this crap, I still can't believe you guys have kept them as your representative union for so long. Keep posting Overspin, your helping a great cause... Nuff said.

 

[swamt]

Nice try OverSPIN but the real outcome will be how many cards will the SWA guys sign.
My prediction is less than what the teamsters tried for a run off election.
Less than 200. Probably more like 2. The amount of interest by cards signed tells the real story. That is the bottom line. Ex AA guys over at SWA informing them of the TWU and their ways of lies and deceit. That will end the raid rather quickly.
A AMFA filing will happen soon. Why else is the TWU resorting to new lows?
DESPERATION of losing the CA$H COW.
2013 will bring a much overdue needed change for the AMT's.
Then comes UAL/CAL. The momentum is increasing for the Craft.
What is increasing for you? Your Weight?

BTW, the TWU claims that AMFA membership is on the decline so why bother with a small group? Not much dues money there. Why not go after the big bucks. UAL/CAL or Delta perhaps. 2013 can not come fast enough.

I recomend all the SWA mechs who think they might look at the TWU to ask any and all the new hires from AA. No really, go ask them about the TWU. They are here at SWA directly related to the TWU "agreeing" to outsourcing and concessions, so please go talk to them, don't just believe us.
BTW; more AA guys are starting this week again. Wish you guys luck. Welcome aboard.
You know it's funny, the TWU claims they have had inquiries over the last 6 months. That is a complete lie. The TWU got the senoirity list, tele numbers, and addresses from the ever helping teamsters. Is there a law against them handing out our private information?? I believe there is. Let's get Seham to sue the teamsters as well as the TWU for all their cash. What do you say Seham? This could be lucrative as well as fun as hell!!
Your correct 2013 will be a good year for AA mechs, AMFA and the craft of our industry. I too see UAL/CAL following suit back to AMFA shortly after AA gets in in 2013. Then I see AMFA finally getting in at DAL, then it's all overwith, all the smaller airlines and comuters will see the bennifits and jump on board, as well as the FBO's out there. And guess what, AMFA wants to represent the outsoursing mechs. It will help us all in the long run.

 

[Overspeed]

I recomend all the SWA mechs who think they might look at the TWU to ask any and all the new hires from AA. No really, go ask them about the TWU. They are here at SWA directly related to the TWU "agreeing" to outsourcing and concessions, so please go talk to them, don't just believe us.
BTW; more AA guys are starting this week again. Wish you guys luck. Welcome aboard.
You know it's funny, the TWU claims they have had inquiries over the last 6 months. That is a complete lie. The TWU got the senoirity list, tele numbers, and addresses from the ever helping teamsters. Is there a law against them handing out our private information?? I believe there is. Let's get Seham to sue the teamsters as well as the TWU for all their cash. What do you say Seham? This could be lucrative as well as fun as hell!!
Your correct 2013 will be a good year for AA mechs, AMFA and the craft of our industry. I too see UAL/CAL following suit back to AMFA shortly after AA gets in in 2013. Then I see AMFA finally getting in at DAL, then it's all overwith, all the smaller airlines and comuters will see the bennifits and jump on board, as well as the FBO's out there. And guess what, AMFA wants to represent the outsoursing mechs. It will help us all in the long run.

I urge all SWA AMTs to ask a fellow TWU member at SWA and they will find they get superior pay and benefits compared to what AMFA has done at SWA.

 

[Overspeed]

That's all you do is repeat yourself over and over and over again hoping someone will believe you AND, you are just hoping that we will get tired of reading your post and constantly having to fix your postings. Don't worry, everyone out here knows you well by now. AMFA hasn't gave up any jobs as you claim. The TWU has agreed to the loss of jobs. Not only agreed but ran out and pushed, and rah rahed, and sold it to their membership. AMFA has NEVER done this sir, NEVER!! AMFA would never endorse what the TWU has recently agreed ro with the company, NEVER.
Once again the National election was re-done do to DOL laws being broke during the campaign. Not because the officers were voted out. The National was looking at an investigation by outsiders that if found to have broken such laws would have been looking at fines and charges. AND as I have said before, the investigation was done by the AMFA National 2 members left that the election did not affect. It was not done by the DOL as, I think, Anomaly tried to say before. It was all handled in house and settled in house as per the DOL laws.
And now you don't want to compare certain BK contracts nego 8-9 years ago. Your wrong. They are very comparable b/c the company is doing that very exact same thing, comparing to all the other BK's and trying to outdue the other BK's, which the TWU has done a fine job of outdoing all of them, as far as the entire package is concern, Pay cuts, loss of jobs, outsoursing, loss of retirement bennies, frozen pensions, displacement of members involentary, loss of bennies, vac, f/h personal days ect... As history has shown the TWU has been the leader of concessions for well over 35 years by the end of your current concessions contract that the wonderfull TWU has "AGREED TO" as well as promoted, encouraged, pushed, and sold to the membership once again, just like 2003, 1993 and 1983. Over 3 decades of this crap, I still can't believe you guys have kept them as your representative union for so long. Keep posting Overspin, your helping a great cause... Nuff said.

It's not called repeating when you are stating the facts.

AMFA did not defend the AS or UA outsourcing language. Thousands of jobs lost in the process. UA even hit the workers with 1113e pay and benefit cuts. Good job AMFA.

NW AMFA got their ass handed to them and ended up accepting supervisors on the system seniority list as well as unlimited outsourcing. Good job AMFA.

You keep saying agreed to. Yep we agreed to limiting outsourcing to 35% of all direct lab and material spend. If that language was in place at Southwest you have to reduce outsourcing by $300M dollars. Back out $60M for overhead and that equates to close to 2,000 jobs in house at Southwest doing airframe overhaul, components, and engines. Yep that's right. TWU language would ADD 2,000 AMT jobs while you AMFA guys brag about one line or 100 jobs. Your scope language sucks.

Sokol loves AMFA the enablers of more outsourcing of jobs to low wage MROs than any other union. Way to go professional negotiators.

 

[Overspeed]

That's all you do is repeat yourself over and over and over again hoping someone will believe you AND, you are just hoping that we will get tired of reading your post and constantly having to fix your postings. Don't worry, everyone out here knows you well by now. AMFA hasn't gave up any jobs as you claim. The TWU has agreed to the loss of jobs. Not only agreed but ran out and pushed, and rah rahed, and sold it to their membership. AMFA has NEVER done this sir, NEVER!! AMFA would never endorse what the TWU has recently agreed ro with the company, NEVER.
Once again the National election was re-done do to DOL laws being broke during the campaign. Not because the officers were voted out. The National was looking at an investigation by outsiders that if found to have broken such laws would have been looking at fines and charges. AND as I have said before, the investigation was done by the AMFA National 2 members left that the election did not affect. It was not done by the DOL as, I think, Anomaly tried to say before. It was all handled in house and settled in house as per the DOL laws.
And now you don't want to compare certain BK contracts nego 8-9 years ago. Your wrong. They are very comparable b/c the company is doing that very exact same thing, comparing to all the other BK's and trying to outdue the other BK's, which the TWU has done a fine job of outdoing all of them, as far as the entire package is concern, Pay cuts, loss of jobs, outsoursing, loss of retirement bennies, frozen pensions, displacement of members involentary, loss of bennies, vac, f/h personal days ect... As history has shown the TWU has been the leader of concessions for well over 35 years by the end of your current concessions contract that the wonderfull TWU has "AGREED TO" as well as promoted, encouraged, pushed, and sold to the membership once again, just like 2003, 1993 and 1983. Over 3 decades of this crap, I still can't believe you guys have kept them as your representative union for so long. Keep posting Overspin, your helping a great cause... Nuff said.

And in 1993 the b scale was eliminated. That was a contract extension that did not allow AA to outsource more and got a big chunk of members a big pay raise. That's called a win brother.

 

[1AA]

And in 1993 the b scale was eliminated. That was a contract extension that did not allow AA to outsource more and got a big chunk of members a big pay raise. That's called a win brother.

That was 1993. What happened in 2012?
A new TWU low for the industry.
No thanks. AMFA here we come in 2013!

 

[1AA]

I urge all SWA AMTs to ask a fellow TWU member at SWA and they will find they get superior pay and benefits compared to what AMFA has done at SWA.

How about this question.
I urge all SWA AMTs to ask a fellow TWU member at SWA and they will find they get superior pay and benefits compared to what the TWU has done at AA.

Now that is more the truth, not the overSPIN.

 

[Overspeed]

How about this question.
I urge all SWA AMTs to ask a fellow TWU member at SWA and they will find they get superior pay and benefits compared to what the TWU has done at AA.

Now that is more the truth, not the overSPIN.

Thank you. That is the point really isn't it. When AMFAis compared side by side to other unions on the same property they are dead last. When you compare what AMFA has done in BK proceedings at other airlines the story is disastrous. NW all but two stations gone and DL wanted nothing to do with AMFA. At UA they rolled and all airframe overhaul got outsourced and Delle even acknowledged that BK law was biased against labor. At AS AMFA didn't vene take on management when they shuttered the OAK overhaul base and defendthe scope language.

Now let's look at the TWU. We kept more work in house than any union during BK, and the members that listened to the Int'l like the Dispatchers and the Tech Specs kept their pay raises and holidays from the 2010 agreement and lost no jobs. Yep when TWU local presidents listen to the TWU attorneys and Int'l they come out on top. If we had gone your route of voting no and risking abrogation we would have lost almost 50% of our work to outsourcing and followed in AMFAs foot steps. Luckily our members started to wake up.