Unions dig in for Delta fight

[E-TRONS]

This is for the Delta folks that don't understand the significance of Unions in the industry.

Do you think for one minute, that Delta would voluntarily pay you the wages you have enjoyed over the years if there were no Unions in the airlines? Think about that for a minute. Look at WalMart as an example. What sort of compensation does it pay it's workers? They pay poverty level wages and the employees have no voice in the matter. WalMart CLOSED a store in Canada where the courts ruled the employees must be allowed to organize. WalMart went to that length to keep Unions off the property. So how does this compare to the current day Delta? You have been getting good compensation DUE to the Unions at other carriers. Delta simply will do whatever it has to do to keep the unions out. I don't care how you choose to interpret it, or explain it, it is the way it is.
The unionized-flyboys get whatever they want. Maybe one day the AMTs out there will smarten up and quit supplying airworthy aircraft to the line every day. Then NOBODY flies. So WHO is more important again???

The day will come when all Unions will be removed from the airlines. Then you will receive what your management thinks you are worth! The SCABS at NWA did their part in demonstrating that Unions can be broken for all airlines to see. Funny thing is that those same SCABS will be infiltrating the happy ranks at your Delta!!!! I hope each of you understand the severity of that.

The days of the, "we don't need a union" philosophy at Delta and how they care for their employees will end sooner or later. Just you wait and see. You are just too close to see it. I really wish all of you luck because you will need it.

 

[Don Smith]

Thats the danger of never moving off your board and reading what is happening at other carriers. A little research and some deduction will tell you that the mechanics got screwed. Lots of factors involved but the way things are at nwa now, the mechanics union is done. Sure, they're still there but in a very diminished number and they are whipped. They wouldn't have enough money to hold a meeting at the Dairy Queen let alone mount any type of organized action. Now look at what has happened at the other nwa unions. Ground ops - more part-timers now than ever. The IAM so deeply in the company's pocket they would never mount a fight. A few brave posters here (Kev) but in the end the union would never buck the company line. Pilots, please...They get promised everything. Their strikes (if they strike) are short and don't accomplish anything. The Flight Attendants are in the same boat as the ground ops.
Now they are going to merge with Delta...do you think that the former nwa CEO, Dick Anderson, is going to let some union get in the way? You guys won't even get a card drive off before you start seeing the management hand pushing some of you out the door. Hmmm...no rebel employee - no vote.

I think I'll stay with this Delta board for awhile. You guys need some education.

Already been discussed to death on this site....

Since you come across as a bit slow, here's some help:

1. Read NxNW's post.

2. Read anyone of the many many threads discussing this on this board.

Do your research, and you can find info/perspectives from: AMT's, IAM members, F/A's, pilots, management and more...

By the way, why do you ask questions while *still* refusing to answer the ones asked of you?

 

[southwind]

Thats the danger of never moving off your board and reading what is happening at other carriers. A little research and some deduction will tell you that the mechanics got screwed. Lots of factors involved but the way things are at nwa now, the mechanics union is done. Sure, they're still there but in a very diminished number and they are whipped. They wouldn't have enough money to hold a meeting at the Dairy Queen let alone mount any type of organized action. Now look at what has happened at the other nwa unions. Ground ops - more part-timers now than ever. The IAM so deeply in the company's pocket they would never mount a fight. A few brave posters here (Kev) but in the end the union would never buck the company line. Pilots, please...They get promised everything. Their strikes (if they strike) are short and don't accomplish anything. The Flight Attendants are in the same boat as the ground ops.
Now they are going to merge with Delta...do you think that the former nwa CEO, Dick Anderson, is going to let some union get in the way? You guys won't even get a card drive off before you start seeing the management hand pushing some of you out the door. Hmmm...no rebel employee - no vote.

I think I'll stay with this Delta board for awhile. You guys need some education.

Yes............please educate us on how a "UNION" will keep 177 pilots at AirTran from recieving a pink-slip in the near future !

 

[E-TRONS]

Southwind,

Are you for real??? A Union cannot prevent a furlough but it sure as heck can make sure the layoffs go in seniority order. No Union would mean that a company could get rid of whom ever they wanted to, in any order that they wanted to. Get it? So if you are close to retirement age and you have no Union to ensure your seniority is respected then I would say you have some worrying to do eh?

Unions are a necessary evil in the face of all the corporate greed and idiocy that is so prevalent today. Just remember Frank Lorenzo and what he did to Eastern. Those courageous folks went to battle and sacraficed their livelihoods to try and fight for what they believed in. Don't think for a moment that another Lorenzo couldn't appear somewhere. I would watch the ex-NWA execs for starters. :down:

 

[signals]

Southwind,

Are you for real??? A Union cannot prevent a furlough but it sure as heck can make sure the layoffs go in seniority order. No Union would mean that a company could get rid of whom ever they wanted to, in any order that they wanted to. Get it? So if you are close to retirement age and you have no Union to ensure your seniority is respected then I would say you have some worrying to do eh?

Unions are a necessary evil in the face of all the corporate greed and idiocy that is so prevalent today. Just remember Frank Lorenzo and what he did to Eastern. Those courageous folks went to battle and sacraficed their livelihoods to try and fight for what they believed in. Don't think for a moment that another Lorenzo couldn't appear somewhere. I would watch the ex-NWA execs for starters. :down:

Actually if you read the facts, it was the unions that did Eastern in not Lorenzo. But that is niether here nor there. Now let me pretend that this was my union, let's see what would happen. BTW I am following closely this NWA union vs. Deltoid non-union merger.

You say 'seniority' and this would be a loss for the Deltoids if it was my union. My seniority is already established and Delta would be new members whose seniority began on the date they joined the union. Then it would be by the initial of their last name since they all joined at the same time.

Another scenario is to say that their seniority goes back to their actual date of hire. Imagine if you were at the top and suddenly closer to the bottom.

If it goes up for a vote whether to unionize, Delta has almost twice as many employees as NWA. They might like where they are at without a union. Unions seem to be becoming a hard sell in a world where jobs are scarce and being outsourced. Just my opinion.

 

[signals]

For what it is worth the AMFA leadership did ask for help. Dell sent a letter to the IAM leadership asking them to stand with them against the attack on the employees of NWA. In it Dell even referenced the fact that the AMFA honored an IAM stike against Ozark.

The IAM leadership feeling slighted by the AMFA "raid" of its members decided to watch, and hope, that the AMFA stike failed.

AMFA is a renegade union. It didn't have the support of the other 'outside' major unions such as Teamsters and AFL-CIO.

I doubt IAM is any better since in my area the NWA IAM was outsourced to AW IAM.

 

[Kev3188]

Unions are a necessary evil in the face of all the corporate greed and idiocy that is so prevalent today. Just remember Frank Lorenzo and what he did to Eastern.

...And don't forget Richard Anderson cut his teeth at the feet of Lorenzo...

Those courageous folks went to battle and sacraficed their livelihoods to try and fight for what they believed in. Don't think for a moment that another Lorenzo couldn't appear somewhere. I would watch the ex-NWA execs for starters. :down:

See above...

 

[cooper43]

You say 'seniority' and this would be a loss for the Deltoids if it was my union. My seniority is already established and Delta would be new members whose seniority began on the date they joined the union. Then it would be by the initial of their last name since they all joined at the same time.


If it goes up for a vote whether to unionize, Delta has almost twice as many employees as NWA. They might like where they are at without a union. Unions seem to be becoming a hard sell in a world where jobs are scarce and being outsourced. Just my opinion.

Good thing this is not your union, there is no way Delta employees would let being stapled to the bottom happen. And your statement seems to say that if your unionized airline joined a larger unionized airline in which the larger airline would be the dominate carrier you would go to the bottom of their list because you would be a new member of thier union. LOL

And yes if NWA employees were to have that opinion that Delta should go to the bottome then I am sure you are right, we would oppose a union. IT AINT GOING DOWN THAT WAY. There will be a fair integration of seniority for both sides.

 

[1Conehead]

You say 'seniority' and this would be a loss for the Deltoids if it was my union. My seniority is already established and Delta would be new members whose seniority began on the date they joined the union. Then it would be by the initial of their last name since they all joined at the same time.

I thought the workers worked for the company and the union worked for the workers.
Not so in your scenario.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

.....there is no way Delta employees would let being stapled to the bottom happen.

What would the Delta employees do?

 

[cooper43]

What would the Delta employees do?

we would organize our own union. That situation is so far fetched that there is no reason to consider it. So you think that Delta is buying NWA and then would staple thier own employees to the bottom of seniority list. You really do live in an alternate universe. The whole idea that the company would let that happen when it would result in everyone being unionized is ludicrious. If Delta were being the one bought out and if they were about to go out of business then I can see that happening maybe. But neither of those are the case here. What you got going on in your mind is what most people would call a "pipe dream". LOL

 

[2BlacknBlue]

we would organize our own union. That situation is so far fetched that there is no reason to consider it. So you think that Delta is buying NWA and then would staple thier own employees to the bottom of seniority list. You really do live in an alternate universe. The whole idea that the company would let that happen when it would result in everyone being unionized is ludicrious. If Delta were being the one bought out and if they were about to go out of business then I can see that happening maybe. But neither of those are the case here. What you got going on in your mind is what most people would call a "pipe dream". LOL

Oh puleeeeze! Save your veiled unionization "threats" for someone unfamiliar with your cause! Delta recently announced that it has taken out a billion dollar loan to finance the combination of DL and NW and you can best believe that some of that money will be used to thwart any remote effort that the attendants show to organize. Heck, someone has even convinced the NMB to petition a change in the rules mid-stream to facilitate the merging of the airlines without representation. These DL execs have a plan to have the world's largest non-union airline, which will trailblaze the way for "bottom of the industry" wages and benefits and NO DL flight attendant will stand in the way of that! For the meantime, DL will simply change the "industry standard" pay promise to "industry leading", deliver on the promise, and most of you will just go away, stating, "See, we don't need a union to get what we want". Later, DL will just take it away claiiming a SARS epidemic, 9-11, fuel, etc. And you'll still be on this board claiming that you all will form your own union!

No guts, No glory!

 

[groundcontrol]

Oh puleeeeze! Save your veiled unionization "threats" for someone unfamiliar with your cause! Delta recently announced that it has taken out a billion dollar loan to finance the combination of DL and NW and you can best believe that some of that money will be used to thwart any remote effort that the attendants show to organize. Heck, someone has even convinced the NMB to petition a change in the rules mid-stream to facilitate the merging of the airlines without representation. These DL execs have a plan to have the world's largest non-union airline, which will trailblaze the way for "bottom of the industry" wages and benefits and NO DL flight attendant will stand in the way of that! For the meantime, DL will simply change the "industry standard" pay promise to "industry leading", deliver on the promise, and most of you will just go away, stating, "See, we don't need a union to get what we want". Later, DL will just take it away claiiming a SARS epidemic, 9-11, fuel, etc. And you'll still be on this board claiming that you all will form your own union!

No guts, No glory!

Interesting, a billion dollar loan. While I don't know what their balance sheet looks like, this loan will have to be paid back (a given I know). It sure will give them enough cash flow and you are right that the money will be well spent on keeping the unions out.

People get laid off, families are hurt and unemployment goes up. (been there doing that)
The price of stock usually goes up when downsizing is announced. The market likes it when a company reduces it's labor costs(no union's need apply), either by automation or by just consolidating it's labor force in general. (can you say merge)

And when stock prices go up, the CEO's and stockholders get richer. Employees lose, investors and owner's win.

Not fair I know to the worker bees, but since I no longer have any interest in the airline except as an investor, I hope they do right by me.

Good luck to all involved in this merge.

 

[aislehopper]

These DL execs have a plan to have the world's largest non-union airline, which will trailblaze the way for "bottom of the industry" wages and benefits and NO DL flight attendant will stand in the way of that!

Technically, these DL execs already have the world's largest (mostly) non union airline, and the trail to the bottom is already being blazed by some of my unionized peers.

 

[cooper43]

Oh puleeeeze! Save your veiled unionization "threats" for someone unfamiliar with your cause! Delta recently announced that it has taken out a billion dollar loan to finance the combination of DL and NW and you can best believe that some of that money will be used to thwart any remote effort that the attendants show to organize. Heck, someone has even convinced the NMB to petition a change in the rules mid-stream to facilitate the merging of the airlines without representation. These DL execs have a plan to have the world's largest non-union airline, which will trailblaze the way for "bottom of the industry" wages and benefits and NO DL flight attendant will stand in the way of that! For the meantime, DL will simply change the "industry standard" pay promise to "industry leading", deliver on the promise, and most of you will just go away, stating, "See, we don't need a union to get what we want". Later, DL will just take it away claiiming a SARS epidemic, 9-11, fuel, etc. And you'll still be on this board claiming that you all will form your own union!

No guts, No glory!

While I agree that Delta will spend lots of money to try to sway people from voting for the union, (we already know what they do because we work for them) I do not agree that they will succeed. I think there will be too much of a push from our NWA's in addition to those of us at Delta who will be in favor of unionization. We just need to make sure it is the union we want and not one being forced upon us like the last campaign. Anyway, to the original point, if Delta were to succeed in squashing a union campaign again, there is no way that NWA would be in any position to staple Delta employees to the bottom. That is just not going to happen. There will be a fair intergration of seniority for both sides. Don't try to be dramatic with your rhetoric about Delta being non union and will be stapled to the bottom. In reality (whether you like it or not) the two airlines will merge and it really will not matter whether we are unionized or not.