US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/15-4/22

[prechilill]

Negotiations, mediation, arbitration, now a date with the judge. Nothing will change around here since the people will never change. Fairness is in the eye of the beholder and professionalism is a personal decision. The east won't quit until they cram their version of fairness down the wests' throats- to heck with professionalism. There will be three exit points from this mess- resignation, retirement or death from the sweat shop LOA93 work rules. Attrition will continue and eventually things will settle back to normal for us all.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Empire and PI did merge! This current US Air is not the old US Air or America West - evidenced by a change in the stock trading symbol from US to LLC. I have said all along that these issues could have been avoided had an altogether new name been adopted at the time of the merge.


:blink:

Had to go back and see what I was replying to in that quote....

You are correct - Empire and Piedmont did merge with PI being the surviving carrier, meaning that US and Empire indirectly merged thanks to the US/PI merger with US as the surviving company. But none of the mergers over the last 20 years, all of which had the US name continue, means that the other carriers never existed or that there weren't mergers.

What I was specificly addressing was an assertion that since the US name survived US was "a company" and therefore met the "a company" part of the dictionery definition of seniority.

I was saying that just because the name continued didn't mean that the current US was one company all along. The current US is a product of many mergers, with the HP/US merger being just the latest.

Jim

 

[usabusdriver]

As has been explained before, time and again, the Empire pilots traded some of their aircraft bid seniority for retirement, a good deal at the time, retaining their Empire DOH for almost every other part of the operation.

Frankly, you can keep the "nic", but only use it for seniority as it applies to reserve call-out. How about that?

Snark,

I am uncertain what you are saying. Are you implying or stating that you want the east pilot group to trade their aircraft bid seniority for pay parity with the west and DOH for everything else?

Confused

 

[usabusdriver]

Not at all. I am saying that my time at AAA has value in and of itself, independent of how well the company did, how competent or ethical it's management was, how well management conducted the company's business, or what the economic circumstances were.

So compare my seniority with my counterpart's out west and by virtue of the fact that mine consists of 4.5 more years in the service of this company, my seniority and what was invested in achieving it is different from his. So in putting together a combined list, that difference should be addressed - not ignored or dismissed. And of course this disparity becomes grotesquely huge in the case of our F/O's.

Piedmont,

What about the instance in the seniority list where guys just a few hundred seniority numbers apart have a huge difference in career path? Where the first guy upgraded in 4-5 years and has been a captain for 20 and the other guy has been up and down the seniority list for 20 years? One guys longevity or investment with the company has been a lot different than the others.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Piedmont,

What about the instance in the seniority list where guys just a few hundred seniority numbers apart have a huge difference in career path? Where the first guy upgraded in 4-5 years and has been a captain for 20 and the other guy has been up and down the seniority list for 20 years? One guys longevity or investment with the company has been a lot different than the others.

Good for the 20 year captain. His seat should be protected. No bump no flush. He has it made - except for a decent contract.

I'm just saying that the next captain seat outside of PHX or LAS should go to the 20 year east F/O.

 

[nic4us]

No, you said, "and that they got here pretty much the same way you did, by the downfall of their old company." You were comparing US to failed carriers, implying US had gone out of business.

"prety much" is not the same as if I had said "exactly the same way". Yes indeed I was comparing US to failed carriers in that their pilots now work for a company headquartered in Tempe, same as the America West pilots from Eastern and Frontier, who we were discussing.

How about rather than I prove US went out of business, You offer any evidence that the airline you flew for prior to Sep 2005 is still in business.

 

[nostradamus]

A simple reset of seniority strategy was brought about to placate alpa for the forthcoming united merger and help the respective management attain their expected pay off. The united pilot neutral that advised the arbiter and the united pilot alpa vp in charge of the rice committee to study the seniority results, thought this would be perfectly acceptable, because their employer was united

The attempted theft by alpa and management by Eminent domain type strategy of the seniority of the East, to put this in west terms, is the crotch of our disagreement and the result was the birth of USAPA.


A simple reset of seniority plan attempt, click here

 

[HPearlyretiree]

What he's doing is only slightly less tasteless than pointing out those statistics.

Scully is being used for his propaganda value not because he's any more/less impacted by the outcome



Your theatrics mimic what your lawyer is going to try. It's nice to see where it comes from.



To illustrate the fallacy of putting a man on the stand to suckle his reputation for doing something that has nothing to do with the question of law at hand.

If you can benefit from his reputation as an example of the prowess of the East pilot group, you can surely face the downside, right?

I just heard, they are going to put Brit Phenom Susan Boyle up on the stand too! And the captain of the ship that was hijacked!

And kittens. Who doesn't love kittens?

If they are gonna play "stunt witness" why not go all the way?

 

[nostradamus]

When the judge makes his ruling and if you get your way, after the merger with united, america west pilots and united pilots can talk about the fun you both had down under. Integrity is relevant and clouded by the gain of the beholder. Is it not?


united alpa pilots meet america west pilots in Australia, click here.

 

[700UW]

And US Pilots are not better when they made a sweetheart deal with the company back in 92 and crossed the IAM M&R picket line.

And I saw many a pilot cleaning planes during the 30 day cooling off period.

Pot meet Kettle.

 

[Megasnoop]

Hey, you are a retired west pilot. You flew in Australia. Why don't you advise the america west pilots how to act in court at the end of the month. You laughed at the Australian pilot's wife's back then, hell, this is nothing for you.

america west pilots view below, when flying in Australia, replacing pilots showing civil disobedience.


""I suppose they were experimenting with the tactic of making themselves look pitiful. They dragged their children around with them and planted them in front of you if you tried to move.

Well, what can one say? It was an interesting technique, but you could tell that the kids would really rather have been someplace else at the time.

In fact it was kind of hard to keep from laughing, but with 50+ of them and two of us there were some subliminal inhibitions against it.""

The Down UnderWare Chronicles, click here.

Noster, the America West author of that little ditty is still active West pilot. Never read so many excuses for taking another pilots job. Back in 1989, Some of our old-schoolers wouldnt let AWA pilots on board. Once we had a discussion about denials at FL330 after one grissled old captain turned down an AWA pilot. He said it best: "Next round it might be my job." That said in front of a young CamAir FE, who he let ride. Snoop

 

[nostradamus]

And US Pilots are not better when they made a sweetheart deal with the company back in 92 and crossed the IAM M&R picket line.

And I saw many a pilot cleaning planes during the 30 day cooling off period.

Pot meet Kettle.

Sir,

Your men defecated in passengers bags during this time, using this as leverage in their negotiation with the company. The pilots you observed cleaning airplanes were the alpa cronies. They have since been voted off the property.

 

[700UW]

No they did not, your making up lies, M&R dont handle baggage.

ALPA Cronies? Gimme a break, I filed hundreds of grievances on the issue of flight crews cleaning planes during the 30 day cooling off period.

Leverage with the company? We went on strike, M&R dont handle baggage so explain to me how that occured with solid proof, not just ramblings behind a monitor.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Hey, you are a retired west pilot. You flew in Australia. Why don't you advise the america west pilots how to act in court at the end of the month. You laughed at the Australian pilot's wife's back then, hell, this is nothing for you.

america west pilots view below, when flying in Australia, replacing pilots showing civil disobedience.


""I suppose they were experimenting with the tactic of making themselves look pitiful. They dragged their children around with them and planted them in front of you if you tried to move.

Well, what can one say? It was an interesting technique, but you could tell that the kids would really rather have been someplace else at the time.

In fact it was kind of hard to keep from laughing, but with 50+ of them and two of us there were some subliminal inhibitions against it.""

The Down UnderWare Chronicles, click here.

You have me mistaken, I was never a pilot, nor have I ever said I was a pilot.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

When the judge makes his ruling and if you get your way, after the merger with united, america west pilots and united pilots can talk about the fun you both had down under. Integrity is relevant and clouded by the gain of the beholder. Is it not?


united alpa pilots meet america west pilots in Australia, click here.

Judge Wake and his jury will not hear of events which occurred 20 years ago and are not germane to the failure of usapa to represent equally ALL US Airways pilots.

It is likely the jury's ruling and the judge's decrees that will be the main topic of conversation around your local airport water cooler come the first week of MAY.

It is usapa on trial, nosty, don't forget that.