US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[BoeingBoy]

Yes, it is obvious who is clueless. In the first paragraph you infer that I am, and then in the second you expound on EXACTLY what I have been saying.

Oh, like when you said the NAC couldn't say any word about the seniority list till section 22 was on the agenda? Isn't that EXACTLY what you said? The clueless is believing that anyone would take something like that seriously.

That the union is on a mission to delay is no surprise to anyone paying the tiniest bit of attention. If you, or they, think lame excuses aren't seen for what they are it's worse than even I thought. Apparently even the company see through it.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Keep laughing Metroyet. It is ALL OF US ON THE LINE. Everytime you see an East jet, picture that guy doing just fine and ready to keep you out of the action.There is no way any of us will vote you a new contract. Learn to live with what you have. It is all you are going to ever get.

You are absolutely incorrect.

IF USAPA loses in finality at the 9th Circuit or in the unlikely SCOTUS appeal, there is no rational reason not to vote for an acceptable contract containing the Nic. It is the law, was the law and will be the law going forward.

And going forward is what this pilot group needs to do sooner than later.

Bitter individuals such as yourself will simply have to move on or move out if you can't function under a new and better contract containing NIC Section 22.

Many who gave USAPA the benefit of the doubt in order to assuage the East's disenfranchised have had enough LOA 93. If there is no way to beat the Nic you better get pay and work rules you can enjoy for what remains of your career.

The fact is, many in the East jets are not "doing fine" and are dipping into savings/retirement accounts to make the monthly bills.

I predict that should a reasonable T/A be offered to the pilots, it will pass.

 

[HPDriver]

I predict that should a reasonable T/A be offered to the pilots, it will pass.

You are correct.

Even Rowe understood this and publicly stated so. He knew a TA with Nic would pass given the right amount of money was offered.

Once the appeal is shot down, things will quickly come to a head out east.

 

[Flippin43]

You are correct.

Even Rowe understood this and publicly stated so. He knew a TA with Nic would pass given the right amount of money was offered.

Once the appeal is shot down, things will quickly come to a head out east.

Which is exactly why we have seen massive back tracking in negotiations. No polling in almost 2 years of usapa. I suppose somehow they already know what the pilots want. To poll might be TOO Democratic for this pilot group, right.

Besides why poll everyone when there is a chance they won't like what the polling data says. They didn't like it last time.


F

 

[AWE Dog]

JS, You should print that post and hand it to the F/O and IRO in the briefing room. Maybe even print a dozen and sign it, that should cover most of the briefing room walls. I got mine, and I want more.

 

[luvn737s]

there is no rational reason

That's where they got 'ya.

 

[cubfan]

Since you're sounding so moderate right now I'm curious what you think the West should've done differently. We played by the rules, after all, and we weren't the ones who withdrew from contract negotiations while the company was profitable and ready to deal. I think a compromise might have been possible at Wye River or where ever but not with the gun the Easties were holding to our heads. A demand for concessions is not a negotiation.

I have always been somewhat moderate, it's the only thing that move things forward. I don't feel there would have been any compromise at Wye, didn't have to be you guys had the NIC. What could have been done different, not that it really matters now, but the west was unwilling to offer any credit for some furloughed with alot of time served. This merger was different in alot of ways, in the past furloughed went to the bottom, but probably had 18 mo. at most, not 14yrs. The west mec was as willing to slam all furlough's to the bottom under Dave and would not budge, as stupid as DOH. If all were treated as equal, like top 10% mergerd with top 10% so on and so forth, this whole thing would have been different. But it really doesn't really matter now anyway, but if these sides don't give alittle alot of bad blood will be around for a long time

 

[kubotapilot]

The fact is, many in the East jets are not "doing fine" and are dipping into savings/retirement accounts to make the monthly bills.

Any pilot at LCC who is still living beyond their means after all that has transpired should not be allowed to handle their own money.

Believe it or not, even with a sour economy, there are a lot of jobs / careers out there better than carrying a bunch of whiny pax around in a dirty aluminum can!

 

[nycbusdriver]

I predict that should a reasonable T/A be offered to the pilots, it will pass.

You obviously never talk to any of your F/Os about all of this. Or, maybe they simply refuse to talk to you about it due to your well known position in this and other matters.

I also assume you mean a reasonable contract, not a T/A. We already have a T/A which is in many ways unreasonable, and it is highly unlikely that a reasonable contract is forthcoming any time soon....at least not before you and I retire.

When the dust settles, if the Nicolau is still standing, I agree that there is a stronger possibility of ratification of a "reasonable contract," I would certainly not give it any better chances than 50-50. Again, there is no reasonable contract on the horizon so the argument is moot for many years anyway.

 

[exB717Flyer]

What could have been done different, not that it really matters now, but the west was unwilling to offer any credit for some furloughed with alot of time served.

If Nicolau had done so we would've accepted it. I'm afraid that's really all there is to say about that. You didn't get what you wanted but that's not reason enough to say the West should've conceded anything. If it makes you feel any better, Mr. Nicolau ruled on an Eagle/AA arbitration that heavily screws me. That's the way arbitrations go.

 

[cubfan]

If Nicolau had done so we would've accepted it. I'm afraid that's really all there is to say about that. You didn't get what you wanted but that's not reason enough to say the West should've conceded anything. If it makes you feel any better, Mr. Nicolau ruled on an Eagle/AA arbitration that heavily screws me. That's the way arbitrations go.

ExB717, not talking about Mr. Nic, I'm talking about the west MEC. They had hard fast feelings/ideas, and were unwilling to budge from the start. The same as our DOH idea. Not good then, not good now....Happy Holidays to you and your family.

 

[Hawkhunter]

You are absolutely incorrect.

IF USAPA loses in finality at the 9th Circuit or in the unlikely SCOTUS appeal, there is no rational reason not to vote for an acceptable contract containing the Nic. It is the law, was the law and will be the law going forward.

And going forward is what this pilot group needs to do sooner than later.

Bitter individuals such as yourself will simply have to move on or move out if you can't function under a new and better contract containing NIC Section 22.

Many who gave USAPA the benefit of the doubt in order to assuage the East's disenfranchised have had enough LOA 93. If there is no way to beat the Nic you better get pay and work rules you can enjoy for what remains of your career.

The fact is, many in the East jets are not "doing fine" and are dipping into savings/retirement accounts to make the monthly bills.

I predict that should a reasonable T/A be offered to the pilots, it will pass.

Well, if it isnt "I got mine with DOH". . I predict no reasonable contract will be offered. If there was, I predict only the "I got mine" crowd like you will be the only ones voting yes. Not many like you.



Moderator warning:

Do NOT post any thing that could out a poster such as personal info.

 

[Flippin43]

I have always been somewhat moderate, it's the only thing that move things forward. I don't feel there would have been any compromise at Wye, didn't have to be you guys had the NIC. What could have been done different, not that it really matters now, but the west was unwilling to offer any credit for some furloughed with alot of time served. This merger was different in alot of ways, in the past furloughed went to the bottom, but probably had 18 mo. at most, not 14yrs. The west mec was as willing to slam all furlough's to the bottom under Dave and would not budge, as stupid as DOH. If all were treated as equal, like top 10% mergerd with top 10% so on and so forth, this whole thing would have been different. But it really doesn't really matter now anyway, but if these sides don't give alittle alot of bad blood will be around for a long time

Cubfan.

Certainly you can see where this could be viewed as trying to improve the 14 yr guys career at the expense of someone elses. Had AAA stayed in business, even the most thick of individuals have to by now see that was not going to happen, but for this discussion, if it had, where would that 14 year guy have gone ??? To the bottom.

Are you now claiming that if the Nic had been a straight relative merge, we wouldn't be in litigation?


F

 

[john john]

You are absolutely incorrect.

I predict that should a reasonable T/A be offered to the pilots, it will pass.

Have you every seen a TA/contract that you didn’t like that is way LOA 93 exist
Your un-wiliness to do what it takes to receive industry wages speaks volumes to management

 

[cleardirect]

You obviously never talk to any of your F/Os about all of this. Or, maybe they simply refuse to talk to you about it due to your well known position in this and other matters.

I also assume you mean a reasonable contract, not a T/A. We already have a T/A which is in many ways unreasonable, and it is highly unlikely that a reasonable contract is forthcoming any time soon....at least not before you and I retire.

When the dust settles, if the Nicolau is still standing, I agree that there is a stronger possibility of ratification of a "reasonable contract," I would certainly not give it any better chances than 50-50. Again, there is no reasonable contract on the horizon so the argument is moot for many years anyway.

T/A Transition Agreement

T/A Tentative Agreement

A tentative agreement is released to be voted on. If it passes it becomes a contract. So he is correct using T/A. As long as the east pilots have been doing this I would think you would know that.

50% +1 is all that is needed to pass. So now we are starting to move away from the "I will never vote for a contract that has the Nic"