US Pilots labor Discussion 12/4-

[HPDriver]

What world do you live in???

Obviously NOT the real one.

This will NEVER be solved.

I will say this: I will be leading the charge for the formation of an LLC as well if your side prevails....I will support dissolution of USAPA and support a "straw man" election...NO UNION!

Then we can let the company decide....if they decide the nicolau then we can sue under title 7 and, as in US Air v. Barnett, taking an UNREASONABLE position contrary to normal seniority lists.

Again, I SEE SCOTUS intervention.

Just trying to move this train forward. If only some from the east would to.

Interesting way of moving the train forward.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Really! I don't recall a vote on going to appeal or not. I don't recall a vote on the childish letter sent to the DOJ of the slot swap. I don't recall a lot of vote over many issues. How does usapa know what the majority wants if no one is asking?

BTW all of you east guy had better stow that majority rules nonsense. If we merge with someone we all us air pilots are going to be in the MINORITY. It is going to sting a lot the first time AA or UAL tells cleary majority rules take seat.

This why that, in a way, I'm GLAD AOL sued and brought this up. This could be the very litigation that causes the SCOTUS to decide the issue once and for all:

"In its question presented, US Airways asked us whether the ADA requires an employer to assign a disabled employee to a particular position even though another employee is entitled to that position under the employer's "established seniority system." We answer that ordinarily the ADA does not require that assignment. Hence, a showing that the assignment would violate the rules of a seniority system warrants summary judgment for the employer--unless there is more. The plaintiff must present evidence of that "more," namely, special circumstances surrounding the particular case that demonstrate the assignment is nonetheless reasonable.

Absent resaonable protections...DOH is THE BASIS for seniority integrations"

East and West are at WAR and we will NEVER come together. This is the end of the unity of pilots here at US Airways. I say again...every man for himself. A vote for ANY CBA with the Nicolau award is a drive to the bottom.

 

[End of USAPA]

Guess what, there's case law on this. It won't work, but we don't expect that to stop you. Go ahead.

Remember..."COPS is filmed on location with the men and women of law enforcement."

You dont get it- once USAPA disappears we start from zero with negotiations! At least another 3 to 4 years. And with the snapback coming in January the east has all the time in the world to merge this pilot group- like 10 years!

Merry Christmas!!!

 

[nic4us]

For some this is turning into one of the usual scenes in "COPS." Bare chested, drunk hard headed redneck screaming threats at the police about knowing his rights, how they'll pay, etc. being led to the back of the police car in cuffs. Not representative of all on the other side of the Mississippi by any means, but based on some of the comments (and the special PM I got from East US the other night...thanks East!), some aren't going to accept reality. I hope for their own sake and that of their families that they don't do anything stupid.

Aqua,

Hemenway (former east) showed his hand with the letter to the NMB. He is helping run the company, not siding with usapa.

My comment was to say, Tempe is going to do what is best for Tempe.

Glad to hear EastUs is still among the living.

 

[End of USAPA]

Jim (Bill Gates)
Maybe you should keep your personal opinions to yourself if you have nothing nice to say. This is good maners,

end of alpa- you are spot on! If the west doesnt want to negotiate then fine! Jungle rules here we come! This was Bradfords plan b all along and it is priceless to see the west guys squirm on here because they don't know how to handle this scenario. It was never in their big lawyers plans and it is OBVIOUS.

No matter what happens, voting ALPA out was the BEST THING we could have done as a pilot group. It is just amazing how a few recalcitrant westies couldn't listen to there own counsle, Jeff Freunde, and save us all a lot of time and money. But noooo, they had to hire some hot shot firm that has bilked them out of 2 million dollars to take a case that want even ripe! Well, its you're money!

Merry Christmas!

 

[HPDriver]

You dont get it- once USAPA disappears we start from zero with negotiations! At least another 3 to 4 years. And with the snapback coming in January the east has all the time in the world to merge this pilot group- like 10 years!

Merry Christmas!!!

Back to lurking.

That fantasy has already been dispelled.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Hemenway (former east) showed his hand with the letter to the NMB. He is helping run the company, not siding with usapa.

I'm somewhat miffed by that letter as it comes after how many opportunities for the company to take not only the right position, but the only position that is going to help end this senseless civil war. It's also intersting that we're seeing that kind of letter almost seven months after the verdict. But, it's clear the company has been getting more and more involved and it started with Bob Siegel's arguments last May before Judge Wake. Bob could have said a lot less, but he really hammered the issues home. Bob definitely helped shape the final form of the injunction and what was compelling, I think, is his status as a recognized authority in RLA law as his words are going to be given wide deference throughout the black robe community. We'll see what the company does going forward, but after this litigation is finished the West more or less will be along for the ride. We've done what we needed to do and what we had to do.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim (Bill Gates)
Maybe you should keep your personal opinions to yourself if you have nothing nice to say.

Hey, if the shoe fits and all that. My opinion is just as valid as yours, and I'll continue to offer it as I see fit. At least I don't pretend to be a "mender" while advocating a self-serving resolution to the mess you all are in.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Jim (Bill Gates)
Maybe you should keep your personal opinions to yourself if you have nothing nice to say. This is good maners,

Leave him alone, he has no life other than trying to dominate this board, who in the right mind would waste there time here without having a dog in this fight., just mail him an old ALPA magazine maybe that will work.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Given the direction you and others around here are taking USAPA, you could just send Jim one of your ALPA magazines that you'll be getting in a few months from now.

 

[luvthe9]

Given the direction you and others around here are taking USAPA, you could just send Jim one of your ALPA magazines that you'll be getting in a few months from now.

I did not think we would have a vote that quick, maybe you know something I don't, bring us up to date.

 

[luvn737s]

I will say this: I will be leading the charge for the formation of an LLC as well if your side prevails....I will support dissolution of USAPA and support a "straw man" election...NO UNION!

What planet am I on when I agree with this guy? The only way to fully get rid of USAPA is to risk the temporary position of non-union. However, a bipartisan effort to form a union that represents ALL the interests of the US pilots will inevitably follow without the seniority integration wedge. Right now Cleary survives politically only as long as the civil war is perpetuated and he hides behind the Germane Fees curtain to finance his progrom.

 

[End of USAPA]

This is a sad state of affairs for this pilot group. Although it is hard to believe it has been almost five years since the merger and still no contract, we can clearly see that we as a combined pilot group are still years away from seeing that happen. All of the grandstanding the west does on here doesn't amount to a hill of North Carolina beans, and we can see that the same players are still very much uneducated with events. There is still alot of time left to get a joint contract, and without a joint contract the west cannot cash in their lottery ticket.

This brings us to the next step, and I am one of the few which sees this for what it is. Courts can get things wrong (think OJ, Klaus von Buleau) and we sometimes have to work around that (Goldman's civil suit against OJ). USAPA supporters are not the kind of people to roll over and play dead- we have been through much more than any west pilot can even imagine. However, if the west doesn't want to at least respect the east with good faith bargaining, they will NEVER get to cash that lottery ticket without the majority of east pilots signing off on it. PERIOD!

So where do we go from here? As Reed Richards and others have brought up it would be wise to think of solutions instead of fences, walls and more problems. Soon, USAPA may be decertified and we will be without a union. The comapny will be free to do what they want with us, but I bet they will appeal to the majority over all issues. When we get the snapback we (east) will have a major ace in our sleeve to bargain with the company. What does the west have?

Merry Christmas!

 

[luvn737s]

Psst. There won't be an east or west once the seniority integration is complete.

And if the company decides to implement whatever contract they want (with Nic in place) in the absence of a union then that's what time it is.

Break that to Cleary easy now, will ya?

 

[Edward]

Folks lets keep this on the labor issues not personal issues. Keep personal comments off the board. You can take those to pm.