US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[233KILLS]

Doesn't pass the smell test. You may be able to BS the fans, but not the players.

Smell test? BS the fans? not the players? What the hell is that? Once again my fellow easties avoid the real world.

 

[233KILLS]

Don't get too excited. He's not who he says he is. Talk about integrity issues!

Bad luck is not an excuse for Lies, and cheats. Usapa has not filed it's final paper work for the Loa93 yet. Did you read the transcripts? Or do you just hold your head in the sand and hope it works out?

 

[luvthe9]

Bad luck is not an excuse for Lies, and cheats. Usapa has not filed it's final paper work for the Loa93 yet. Did you read the transcripts? Or do you just hold your head in the sand and hope it works out?

LOA 93 briefs are to be filed with the Arbitrator by June 11, 2010, and we will be providing the transcripts and information as this process unfolds. The NAC is meeting this week in Chicago with Mediator Terri Brown to continue the process of achieving an industry-standard contract for all US Airways Pilots. Management no longer has the excuse of legal decisions and court actions to prevent the negotiating process from moving forward.

 

[cleardirect]

Corrupt is fighting words, so I won't go there, but ALPA has a very lousy conflict of interest record lately, DAL (Duke case cost ALPA $54M), UAL ($45M settlement), TWA still out there with TWA pilots ahead, and who knows on MDA. In all but TWA, it appears it was ALPA's own MECs/MCs that created the DFRs. Unfortunately for ALPA, they have to defend DFR mistakes, regardless who is responsible for them. BTW, I doubt if ALPA will even exist in its present form 10 years from now.

I was following what someone called ALPA. Not my words.

You can place blame anywhere you want, but unless there is some kind of blatantly unfair staple, you'll never reach the threshold for a winning DFR. If ALPA were still in and the proposed CBA ignored NIC, you had the right to vote it down. ALPA's gone, no such veto vote any more, get over it. USAPA has no obligation to use NIC and they won't. You can whine all you want that anything less than NIC is unfair. You may even get a future district court win on that (anything is possible, I guess), but you won't get NIC as the only fair list past the Ninth. They didn't need to comment on the NIC, but they did. No objective read of their ruling and comments can be spun as positive toward the NIC surviving.

If usapa drops a DOH list it is a staple. 80% of the west goes below your active pilots. West senior captains are junior to furloughed east pilots. Tell a jury how that is fair to the west.

Don’t use the Nicolau invite a DFR. Proceed at your own peril.

Clear, bringing up the JS wars again? Are you really that short of sticks and stones?

I did not bring it up. Check the record I was correcting someone who statde the west started the JS war. It was the east after Nicolau was released. Unfortunately I have to keep repeating the truth because you guys change the story then regurgitate until you believe it.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I was following what someone called ALPA. Not my words.



If usapa drops a DOH list it is a staple. 80% of the west goes below your active pilots. West senior captains are junior to furloughed east pilots. Tell a jury how that is fair to the west.

Don’t use the Nicolau invite a DFR. Proceed at your own peril.


I did not bring it up. Check the record I was correcting someone who statde the west started the JS war. It was the east after Nicolau was released. Unfortunately I have to keep repeating the truth because you guys change the story then regurgitate until you believe it.

Since this wasn't even proposed by USAPA, I don't know where you guys come up with it. Nobody will lose seats or positions with or without NIC. All the East guys really want is to be able to capture the attrition on their side. That's it. I might know of a person or two out of thousands that wants a job closer to their home out west, but if that even exists it's a small, very small number.

You guys are whining over what will probably amount to nothing. If the NIC stood, the West guys that were employed long after most of the east guys would have captured the East's attrition. Not fair AT ALL. Nobody on the East side wants your jobs, even though you want ours.

 

[cleardirect]

LOA 93 briefs are to be filed with the Arbitrator by June 11, 2010, and we will be providing the transcripts and information as this process unfolds. The NAC is meeting this week in Chicago with Mediator Terri Brown to continue the process of achieving an industry-standard contract for all US Airways Pilots. Management no longer has the excuse of legal decisions and court actions to prevent the negotiating process from moving forward.

Neither does usapa. It is time to perform boys where is my contract. 60 days, 90 days are we going to be voting on a contract by the end of the year? Or perhaps usapa will see their third anniversary without getting a contract.

No excuses now guys. where is my contract?

BTW blaming the company because of the injunction. What keep them or usapa from finishing the other 29 sections?

 

[cleardirect]

Since this wasn't even proposed by USAPA, I don't know where you guys come up with it. Nobody will lose seats or positions with or without NIC. All the East guys really want is to be able to capture the attrition on their side. That's it. I might know of a person or two out of thousands that wants a job closer to their home out west, but if that even exists it's a small, very small number.

You guys are whining over what will probably amount to nothing. If the NIC stood, the West guys that were employed long after most of the east guys would have captured the East's attrition. Not fair AT ALL. Nobody on the East side wants your jobs, even though you want ours.

I guess you should have come off of DOH/LOS when Nicolau told you to. Protected attrition and “what you had” But instead you wanted it all. Still do.

If you had used that argument then not now it might have worked. Too late.

 

[banshee74]

I guess you should have come off of DOH/LOS when Nicolau told you to. Protected attrition and “what you had” But instead you wanted it all. Still do.

If you had used that argument then not now it might have worked. Too late.

Well, I had to ask the question......once all legal stuff is exhausted is there any way for both groups (east & west) to find a seniority solution? At least it prompted some discussion. Here's one more...I'm an "east" pilot and would never support DOH. It would be wrong for the "west" folks.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Well, I had to ask the question......once all legal stuff is exhausted is there any way for both groups (east & west) to find a seniority solution? At least it prompted some discussion. Here's one more...I'm an "east" pilot and would never support DOH. It would be wrong for the "west" folks.

Since nobody proposed straight DOH, what is your argument? If you're an East guy and think NIC was fair, then you're one of those guys I described earlier. Either that, or a BSer too, like the last guy that said he was an East guy that supported the NIC.

 

[banshee74]

Since nobody proposed straight DOH, what is your argument? If you're an East guy and think NIC was fair, then you're one of those guys I described earlier. Either that, or a BSer too, like the last guy that said he was an East guy that supported the NIC.

No BS....DOH AND the NIC is totally unfair. Many west guys seem to argue that the east wants DOH. We need to get off that idea. Just my two cents. Back to reading the same stuff over and over.

 

[nycbusdriver]

USAPA can't use the NIc list even if they wanted to. The 9th mentions that USAPA would then be open to a DFR from the East Pilots.

deleted by poster....misread the post.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Courts don't rule on fairness they rule on law.

A court does not decide if it was fair that you killed someone just that you pulled the trigger.

The next case will not be a redo of arbitration. No federal court has that authority.

Ah, yes. Okay.

But the 9th DID mention that something other than the Nic might be fair.

They also mentioned that USAPA may not be bound by the Nic any more than ALPA was. Where have we heard similar thinking before? YOUR ATTORNEY at Wye River.

The Nic is a bargaining position, now rejected by the union. Get over it. Sue if you want, but the new contract will be in place BEFORE that can happen.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

No BS....DOH AND the NIC is totally unfair. Many west guys seem to argue that the east wants DOH. We need to get off that idea. Just my two cents. Back to reading the same stuff over and over.

DOH most certainly needs to be part of the formula. I'm quite sure it will be, especially since it's part of the founding principles of USAPA.

 

[233KILLS]

Since this wasn't even proposed by USAPA, I don't know where you guys come up with it. Nobody will lose seats or positions with or without NIC. All the East guys really want is to be able to capture the attrition on their side. That's it. I might know of a person or two out of thousands that wants a job closer to their home out west, but if that even exists it's a small, very small number.

You guys are whining over what will probably amount to nothing. If the NIC stood, the West guys that were employed long after most of the east guys would have captured the East's attrition. Not fair AT ALL. Nobody on the East side wants your jobs, even though you want ours.

OBG
It's amazing how all of the self entitled east pilots forget about the days and months before the merger announcement. Going to work was like going to a funeral. No one had carrier expectations, most did not think we would make it to the next payday. We were weeks if not days from 100% attrition.

 

[cleardirect]

Ah, yes. Okay.

But the 9th DID mention that something other than the Nic might be fair.

They also mentioned that USAPA may not[/b] be bound by the Nic any more than ALPA was. Where have we heard similar thinking before? YOUR ATTORNEY at Wye River.

The Nic is a bargaining position, now rejected by the union. Get over it. Sue if you want, but the new contract will be in place BEFORE that can happen.

Those words sure don't sound like rulings. Courts look at law not fairness. They said might and maybe, not for sure.

Was ALPA bound by Nicoalu? Yes. Were they able to unilaterally without consent of the west change Nicolau? No. That means that usapa can not either.

We will sue if Nicolau is changed. So get on with it. Where is the TA that usapa is going to present? Time to step up and get a contract. It's been two years. The sooner a contract gets done the sooner the injunction can be put in place. Let's see how much leverage and ability usapa has to get a contract.

BTW before anyone goes blaming ALPA for not being able to get a contract either. It would be the same company, the same negotiators, the same economic conditions and the same pilot group. The only difference is the union name and people at the table on the pilot side.