US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[VAflyGal]

It's so hard not to pop in and keep peaking to read it, isn't it? Tell us the truth! You're expecting something new, sooner or later. Nah, it was BINDING ARBITRATION!

Northwest and Republic just wish they had a message board!

Marriage is binding too but it doesn't always work out does it? Even with the best intentions.
We're all beyond sick of hearing about it. Go ahead and keep suing each other until you're all in wheelchairs. The violin strings have long sense broken.

You would be wise to work together and fix this scope problem and get something that works for all of you before the current Republic has all of our jobs.

Forrest. Trees. Forrest. Trees.

But keep throwing the sticks and stones.

FlyGal OUT

 

[nic4us]

ALPA waffle!? Ha!

ALPA had too many positions, unkept promises, and purloining going on to keep track of. J4J, MDA, work here, work there, put in the preference sheet, pass if you don't want to be recalled to the 190, don't worry the PBGC is great and easy to understand, Rigs were way over rated, don't worry you'll get to vote because we would never give away your pension in the middle of the night, no Buttkoveech didn't have any conflicts and of course no one made a million dollars for pushing the contract on the pilots (at least probably not, right?), welcome our pilots back to mainline (yeah the ones making less than the FAs), do your training on your own computer from home for free, the ALPA president position was in no way a reward for brining back a host of dues from scabs (we promise), age 65 will help all pilots recoup what they voted to give away,

..and most important if you are complaining...don't forget... YOU ARE ALPA!

Uh..., what was the question?

The question is..., does the east not get paid for distance learning?

Okay, that is the last straw, time to get you east folks a nice industry standard Nic inclusive contract.

Had he been paid for training perhaps the DC candidate could have stayed in good standing.

 

[Phoenix]

Marriage is binding too but it doesn't always work out does it? Even with the best intentions.
We're all beyond sick of hearing about it. Go ahead and keep suing each other until you're all in wheelchairs. The violin strings have long sense broken.

You would be wise to work together and fix this scope problem and get something that works for all of you before the current Republic has all of our jobs.

Forrest. Trees. Forrest. Trees.

But keep throwing the sticks and stones.

FlyGal OUT

Caught you peeking!

 

[notsofast]

Marriage is binding too but it doesn't always work out does it? Even with the best intentions.
We're all beyond sick of hearing about it. Go ahead and keep suing each other until you're all in wheelchairs. The violin strings have long sense broken.

You would be wise to work together and fix this scope problem and get something that works for all of you before the current Republic has all of our jobs.

Forrest. Trees. Forrest. Trees.

But keep throwing the sticks and stones.

FlyGal OUT

Did you flight attendants finally get rid of you me too clause? You know the one that you get at least what the pilots have.

 

[notsofast]

West pilots, you have to ask yourself. Did AOL promise you quick judicial response last January that promised damages and back pay since you were hired? Has this happened? No. Now they are asking for more of your money. Red flag.



Click here to keep giving Spartans

 

[Metroyet]

West pilots, you have to ask yourself. Did AOL promise you quick judicial response last January that promised damages and back pay since you were hired? Has this happened? No. Now they are asking for more of your money. Red flag.



[

USAPA hands 35% of ALL dues money over to Lee Seham. On the Merits, Seham has failed every single step of the way. He is still promising DOH even though the company clearly isn't buying it.

Red Flag.

 

[traderjake]

West pilots, you have to ask yourself. Did AOL promise you quick judicial response last January that promised damages and back pay since you were hired? Has this happened? No. Now they are asking for more of your money. Red flag.

East pilots, did USAPA promise you a DOH contract two years ago? Has this happened? No.

They are always asking for more money. Red flag.

 

[luvn737s]

USAPA doesn't ask, they take.

Aren't you all sick of the extortion?

 

[VAflyGal]

Did you flight attendants finally get rid of you me too clause? You know the one that you get at least what the pilots have.

What do you mean? The reduction in duty rigs? The sell-out of our routes vis a vis scope clause bye-bye? No premium pay on the E-190? No international pay on flights to international destinations unless it's on an ETOPS, 767, or 330? Oh, you must mean the crew rest bunks we "me too" for Tel Aviv?

Um, NO, we haven't gotten "rid" of anything. Our fearless JNC keep trying to tell us that they are able to negotiate "as good or better" everything into our new contract, and while I haved mixed thoughts on copairing and the "me too" clause (they are NOT mutually exclusive) - at this point I'm voting NO to any garbage they hand us that does not include us copaired. (The 2 JNC negotiators from the East have not set foot on an airplane except to shuffle about here and there and we've HAD it with not feeling we are represented as a whole). I'll save my tirades for the AFA board, but the answer to your question, with respect, is not yet, and, despite all the "me too concessions" we've taken, hopefully NOT EVER.

 

[psw737]

What do you mean? The reduction in duty rigs? The sell-out of our routes vis a vis scope clause bye-bye? No premium pay on the E-190? No international pay on flights to international destinations unless it's on an ETOPS, 767, or 330? Oh, you must mean the crew rest bunks we "me too" for Tel Aviv?

Um, NO, we haven't gotten "rid" of anything. Our fearless JNC keep trying to tell us that they are able to negotiate "as good or better" everything into our new contract, and while I haved mixed thoughts on copairing and the "me too" clause (they are NOT mutually exclusive) - at this point I'm voting NO to any garbage they hand us that does not include us copaired. (The 2 JNC negotiators from the East have not set foot on an airplane except to shuffle about here and there and we've HAD it with not feeling we are represented as a whole). I'll save my tirades for the AFA board, but the answer to your question, with respect, is not yet, and, despite all the "me too concessions" we've taken, hopefully NOT EVER.

I'll tell you what, VAflyGal sees the real problem with the place as do a lot on the outside looking in. Our pilot groups biggest issue to me is not this frickin seniorty battle but the lack of scope. The east has shrunk from 500+ airframes in the past 9 years to maybe 220. I think everyone has come to be ok with this though. Big problem if you asked me and if I was one of these downgraded captains, this is what I would be pushing usapa to try to correct. There are contracts with these express carriers that will be expiring in the near future and we ought to be trying to recapture that flying. This is a topic that I very seldom hear anyone even bring up at any of the union meetings. On peak days we have 1200-1300 mailine departures and twice as many express, that ought to be a big red flag. This pilot group needs to move on and come together, neither seniority award is perfect. But if we can clear this hurdle and focus on the other issues, there can be a lot of other improvements to mitigate some of the negative effects of one seniority award or the other.

 

[biggie smalls]

I'll tell you what, VAflyGal sees the real problem with the place as do a lot on the outside looking in. Our pilot groups biggest issue to me is not this frickin seniorty battle but the lack of scope. The east has shrunk from 500+ airframes in the past 9 years to maybe 220. I think everyone has come to be ok with this though. Big problem if you asked me and if I was one of these downgraded captains, this is what I would be pushing usapa to try to correct. There are contracts with these express carriers that will be expiring in the near future and we ought to be trying to recapture that flying. This is a topic that I very seldom hear anyone even bring up at any of the union meetings. On peak days we have 1200-1300 mailine departures and twice as many express, that ought to be a big red flag. This pilot group needs to move on and come together, neither seniority award is perfect. But if we can clear this hurdle and focus on the other issues, there can be a lot of other improvements to mitigate some of the negative effects of one seniority award or the other.

Psw737,

I agree, scope is definately an issue. Mesa contract ends in 2010 we need to give all this flying back to mainline and continue to cut the number of Republic flights out of DCA. This will ensure future growth for the company and protect mainline jobs.

 

[psw737]

Psw737,

Mesa contract ends in 2010 we need to give all this flying back to mainline and continue to cut the number of Republic flights out of DCA. This will ensure future growth for the company and protect mainline jobs.

We don't even need to take it all back, every little bit helps more jobs at the bottom, more upgrades= job security. Hey, who gives a crap about that though when we can go around in circles regarding seniority. Whoopdee f...'en doo!!! Let's get this airline together already.

 

[Metroyet]

We don't even need to take it all back, every little bit helps more jobs at the bottom, more upgrades= job security. Hey, who gives a crap about that though when we can go around in circles regarding seniority. Whoopdee f...'en doo!!! Let's get this airline together already.

That would require responsible leadership in both management and the "union". Neither exists.

 

[cleardirect]

What do you mean? The reduction in duty rigs? The sell-out of our routes vis a vis scope clause bye-bye? No premium pay on the E-190? No international pay on flights to international destinations unless it's on an ETOPS, 767, or 330? Oh, you must mean the crew rest bunks we "me too" for Tel Aviv?

Um, NO, we haven't gotten "rid" of anything. Our fearless JNC keep trying to tell us that they are able to negotiate "as good or better" everything into our new contract, and while I haved mixed thoughts on copairing and the "me too" clause (they are NOT mutually exclusive) - at this point I'm voting NO to any garbage they hand us that does not include us copaired. (The 2 JNC negotiators from the East have not set foot on an airplane except to shuffle about here and there and we've HAD it with not feeling we are represented as a whole). I'll save my tirades for the AFA board, but the answer to your question, with respect, is not yet, and, despite all the "me too concessions" we've taken, hopefully NOT EVER.

Flygirl,

While you may not believe in or think your AFA negotiators can get you a better contract. Believe that USAPA will not be able to get the pilots a better contract. So if you are waiting and hoping for the continued “me too” clause. Be careful you may be giving up things you could have gotten by your own negotiating.

The usapa negotiators are inexperienced with little to no backup. They have no one to go to for advice. I don’t think the former ALPA negotiators would be to eager to help. Nor would the usapa NAC admit they needed help and ask.

At this point the west contract is superior in many ways yet the usapa NAC is either giving away our provision because they don’t understand them or never had them or that is not the way the east did it so it must be bad.

As far as scope goes. Usapa lost a huge T/A dispute T/A-8 and now the company is allowed to fly 360 small RJ’s. the pilots are going to have one heck of a time getting that back. Nice job grievance committee.

A contract for the pilots is a long way off. If the F/A’s want any improvements you are going to have to get them yourself.

 

[cleardirect]

I'll tell you what, VAflyGal sees the real problem with the place as do a lot on the outside looking in. Our pilot groups biggest issue to me is not this frickin seniorty battle but the lack of scope. The east has shrunk from 500+ airframes in the past 9 years to maybe 220. I think everyone has come to be ok with this though. Big problem if you asked me and if I was one of these downgraded captains, this is what I would be pushing usapa to try to correct. There are contracts with these express carriers that will be expiring in the near future and we ought to be trying to recapture that flying. This is a topic that I very seldom hear anyone even bring up at any of the union meetings. On peak days we have 1200-1300 mailine departures and twice as many express, that ought to be a big red flag. This pilot group needs to move on and come together, neither seniority award is perfect. But if we can clear this hurdle and focus on the other issues, there can be a lot of other improvements to mitigate some of the negative effects of one seniority award or the other.

Excuse me. But you are kind of messing up your buddies argument that the Nicolau was unfair because it was a snap shot in time. That US Air was just having a “bad hair day” the day the PID was taken. Now you come in here and tell everyone US Air was on a 9 year slide losing more than half the airplanes.

You had better hurry and throw yourself at the feet of king cleary, kiss his ring and ask for forgiveness for dare speaking the truth.

Plus they accuse the west of having a weak scope clause. Now you say that Us Air gave away a bunch of flying to RJ. I see a reeducation camp in your future if you don’t get on the same page as the hardliners.