US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/19- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Richard]

As we approach 500 posts, it's time for a new thread.

I will remind you all to re-read and observe the rules of the board which are pinned at the top of the US Forum. Some of you still have difficulty staying on topic and avoiding insulting each other. The cornfield is getting quite crowded again.

As a reminder, nothing anyone says in this forum will affect the outcome of this dispute...

Thank you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Barrister,

In the last thread, you asked what figure it would take for me to vote yes on a contract if I were still working. For me, and it should be for anyone else, that's the wrong question. A contract is much more than just pay rates and has to be considered in total. For example, would you vote for a contract that paid $250/hour for Gp II but had no scope protection, no pension, no medical coverage, no vacation, no long term medical, etc? I would hope not because taken in total that contract would be worse than the current one. On the other hand, would you vote for a contract that only paid $130/hour for Gp II but tightened scope so that jets having 70 or more seats were flown by mainline, restored the DB pension with make up payments for those with less than 25 years till retirement, completely company funded medical (including after retirement), 8 weeks of vacation, 100% long term medical pay, etc? I would since in total that contract would be a vast improvement over the current contract.

Jim

 

[Barrister]

Barrister,

In the last thread, you asked what figure it would take for me to vote yes on a contract if I were still working. For me, and it should be for anyone else, that's the wrong question. A contract is much more than just pay rates and has to be considered in total. For example, would you vote for a contract that paid $250/hour for Gp II but had no scope protection, no pension, no medical coverage, no vacation, no long term medical, etc? I would hope not because taken in total that contract would be worse than the current one. On the other hand, would you vote for a contract that only paid $130/hour for Gp II but tightened scope so that jets having 70 or more seats were flown by mainline, restored the DB pension with make up payments for those with less than 25 years till retirement, completely company funded medical (including after retirement), 8 weeks of vacation, 100% long term medical pay, etc? I would since in total that contract would be a vast improvement over the current contract.

Jim

Haven,t been here in a while. Same old people with the same old stuff...including me I guess.

Answer me this........to all of you who think Wake will get involved in the actual contract issues such as how when and where OTHER than NIC.
Continental just offerred their pilots the DAL contract plus one dollar. What makes ANY OF YOU WESTIES think Parker will even get close to this and IT HE DOESN'T will YOU still scream...LETS HAVE A VOTE. Please no BS just answer the question......how about you......N4US what pay rate will cause you to vote NO to a contract thus, no to NIC ...how about you 924PS....Calloway.......even you JIM......if you were still here what would your min number be to VOTE NO on a proposed contract. My gut tells me ANY number gets a YES vote out West.

VNIIMN
NPJB


I reposted my question here. Sorry it was not clear. I think you get my meaning. All of the talk about bad faith, foot dragging by USAPA etc...my point was we will never get a contract to vote on that is even near industry standard...making the NIC moot.....and Wake will have NO say in it.

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sorry, I took your question in the last thread literally.

As the saying goes, you can't get blood from a turnip. Perhaps if more emphasis had been placed on negotiating a contract in 2007 when US was making money the chances of getting a decent contract would have been better. Now you're negotiating in an environment where the company is tapping nearly every revenue stream it can come up with to keep from violating the Barclay's agreement covenants, so the chances of getting an "industry standard" contract (whatever that means to any individual) are less. Only one thing is definite - all the talk and bluster here means nothing. Just like a ruling by the 9th won't changed by anything said her but will only be known until they rule, whether a given contract will be ratified or not won't be known until there's a vote. The handful of posters here can say whatever they like and claim anything, but the proof is in the result of a vote.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Haven,t been here in a while. Same old people with the same old stuff...including me I guess.

Answer me this........to all of you who think Wake will get involved in the actual contract issues such as how when and where OTHER than NIC.
Continental just offerred their pilots the DAL contract plus one dollar. What makes ANY OF YOU WESTIES think Parker will even get close to this and IT HE DOESN'T will YOU still scream...LETS HAVE A VOTE. Please no BS just answer the question......how about you......N4US what pay rate will cause you to vote NO to a contract thus, no to NIC ...how about you 924PS....Calloway.......even you JIM......if you were still here what would your min number be to VOTE NO on a proposed contract. My gut tells me ANY number gets a YES vote out West.

VNIIMN
NPJB


I reposted my question here. Sorry it was not clear. I think you get my meaning. All of the talk about bad faith, foot dragging by USAPA etc...my point was we will never get a contract to vote on that is even near industry standard...making the NIC moot.....and Wake will have NO say in it.

VNIIMN
NPJB

I also see the West going for almost any deal to trigger what they want. Calloway especially. What the west has really missed is the fact they helped build a lower cost entity within the airline by not attempting or requiring any pay parity as part of a combination. This really allows Parker to drag his feet as long as he can. From a management standpoint, who can blame him? He has created a beautiful labor divide, which can be used against each side in contract talks, future flying, and the big ace- the ability to have an excuse and means to divide the place up cleanly should the opportunity arise.

 

[Black Swan]

As we approach 500 posts, it's time for a new thread.

I will remind you all to re-read and observe the rules of the board which are pinned at the top of the US Forum. Some of you still have difficulty staying on topic and avoiding insulting each other. The cornfield is getting quite crowded again.

As a reminder, nothing anyone says in this forum will affect the outcome of this dispute...

Thank you.

Good to start. The best kick off is always this: MIKE CLEARY.

 

[Metroyet]

I also see the West going for almost any deal to trigger what they want. Calloway especially. What the west has really missed is the fact they helped build a lower cost entity within the airline by not attempting or requiring any pay parity as part of a combination. This really allows Parker to drag his feet as long as he can. From a management standpoint, who can blame him? He has created a beautiful labor divide, which can be used against each side in contract talks, future flying, and the big ace- the ability to have an excuse and means to divide the place up cleanly should the opportunity arise.

Sorry BS but I'm going to call B.S. to this. It was you geniuses on the east who handed parker the "great divide" on a silver platter. The only saving grace in all of this is the fact that LOA93 is your contract and not the west's.

 

[pilot]

I'm just happy to have a job. We should be thankful for our management not breaking any loan covenants and not rock the boat. If we have to give up more we should because flying planes is all I know how to do. I love flying and am thankful for a job. We can't make what southwest makes because oru management doesn't operate that way. So I just am happy to have the job. I hope we don't have to give back more but if we do it will be so we can help the company not break the loan covenants and stay in business.

I can only fly airplanes with my college degree so I don't care if I make less than a car salesman for doing it. Because if we have to make less to keep this job then that is what we have to do. It doesn't matter to me because if the cost of tickets go up people will stop flying and then we will be in big trouble. And what if gas goes up? Man, then we will have to give up some more.

But we better not do anything to cause the company to break the loan covenants. Because then we would have to go out of business and I can't do anything other than fly airplanes.

I'm just happy to have a job. That's all that matters. I'll vote yes on anything that helps me keep this job. I really need it. I can't do anything other than fly airplanes.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What's funny (or sad) is how many times I heard that when the concessions were up for a vote...

Jim

 

[boeingplt]

Good to start. The best kick off is always this: MIKE CLEARY.

And my reply ... Best Thing To Ever Happen To Us!!

 

[Black Swan]

Sorry BS but I'm going to call B.S. to this. It was you geniuses on the east who handed parker the "great divide" on a silver platter. The only saving grace in all of this is the fact that LOA93 is your contract and not the west's.

We had LOA 93 going into the so called merger, which has yet to be fully consummated. We helped get you a DC Plan, which you did not have. Then we gave you the profit sharing. Also, you did not have. All we ever got back from the west was "we want it all...." You NEVER attempted to get pay parity for the east. This is why if we get the LOA 84 rates, you guys are totally out in the cold with regard to getting a deal. Another gamble you are taking. A big one. The first was WYE RIVER. That reach for the stars could end up costing you all a huge amount in the end. For nothing. Two very dangerous plays. Time will tell.

 

[boeingplt]

I'm just happy to have a job. We should be thankful for our management not breaking any loan covenants and not rock the boat. If we have to give up more we should because flying planes is all I know how to do. I love flying and am thankful for a job. We can't make what southwest makes because oru management doesn't operate that way. So I just am happy to have the job. I hope we don't have to give back more but if we do it will be so we can help the company not break the loan covenants and stay in business.

I can only fly airplanes with my college degree so I don't care if I make less than a car salesman for doing it. Because if we have to make less to keep this job then that is what we have to do. It doesn't matter to me because if the cost of tickets go up people will stop flying and then we will be in big trouble. And what if gas goes up? Man, then we will have to give up some more.

But we better not do anything to cause the company to break the loan covenants. Because then we would have to go out of business and I can't do anything other than fly airplanes.

I'm just happy to have a job. That's all that matters. I'll vote yes on anything that helps me keep this job. I really need it. I can't do anything other than fly airplanes.

Best USA320 Pilot imitation I've ever seen

 

[Black Swan]

I'm just happy to have a job. We should be thankful for our management not breaking any loan covenants and not rock the boat. If we have to give up more we should because flying planes is all I know how to do. I love flying and am thankful for a job. We can't make what southwest makes because oru management doesn't operate that way. So I just am happy to have the job. I hope we don't have to give back more but if we do it will be so we can help the company not break the loan covenants and stay in business.

I can only fly airplanes with my college degree so I don't care if I make less than a car salesman for doing it. Because if we have to make less to keep this job then that is what we have to do. It doesn't matter to me because if the cost of tickets go up people will stop flying and then we will be in big trouble. And what if gas goes up? Man, then we will have to give up some more.

But we better not do anything to cause the company to break the loan covenants. Because then we would have to go out of business and I can't do anything other than fly airplanes.

I'm just happy to have a job. That's all that matters. I'll vote yes on anything that helps me keep this job. I really need it. I can't do anything other than fly airplanes.

Right out of the ALPA maintain cash flow at all costs play book. Live to fly another day.

 

[Black Swan]

Best USA320 Pilot imitation I've ever seen

Whoa! Just got off the phone with a friend in AZ. What the (&)&(*^ was going on with that pilot and F/A beating up some guy out there????Was it an Airways guy?

 

[Black Swan]

Sorry BS but I'm going to call B.S. to this. It was you geniuses on the east who handed parker the "great divide" on a silver platter. The only saving grace in all of this is the fact that LOA93 is your contract and not the west's.

You guys got handed the silver football Parker fumbled. Instead of doing the right thing, you turned around and ran a touchdown for the opposition. Now you expect team bonding when it really counts. Good luck.