what are we asking for?

[DallasConehead]

weasles,
 
Why does this baggage handler have so much to say about mechanics? I have let you slide for a  long time but now your post are getting offensive.
 
Most mechanics trained in school, either a HS program or a college, or they served in the military for 4 or more years, and got their FAA Certifications afterwards.  Most guys here at AA have put in their dues before the "cushy" airline job. Most mechanics do back breaking exhaustive work on repairing aircraft with little support from the powers that be, figuring out how to do a repair and stay within the confines of the manuals/regulations. Alot of times it come down to telling the company to shite a part or a tool so they can have their airplane. We do this so you and the rest of the public can fly through the air on a speeding tube of aluminum 7 miles up safely.
 
If you are so interested in maintenance get your FAA certs and pay your dues and join us.

 

[WeAAsles]

I can already hear it,"We'll get 'em next time!".

The freshly trained TWU 'negotiators' will be coming back with a dog crap TA and sell it as the greatest thing evah negotiated.

Sad to say that there really is something wrong going on with people back in JFK? Not meant as a knock and I have to figure it's mostly the insane cost to live there. That's why there really should be some Geographic pay in our contracts? Really, seriously.

 

[WeAAsles]

weasles,
 
Why does this baggage handler have so much to say about mechanics? I have let you slide for a  long time but now your post are getting offensive.
 
Most mechanics trained in school, either a HS program or a college, or they served in the military for 4 or more years, and got their FAA Certifications afterwards.  Most guys here at AA have put in their dues before the "cushy" airline job. Most mechanics do back breaking exhaustive work on repairing aircraft with little support from the powers that be, figuring out how to do a repair and stay within the confines of the manuals/regulations. Alot of times it come down to telling the company to shite a part or a tool so they can have their airplane. We do this so you and the rest of the public can fly through the air on a speeding tube of aluminum 7 miles up safely.
 
If you are so interested in maintenance get your FAA certs and pay your dues and join us.

Dallas it's beyond nothing against the very skilled proffessionals in the trade who I would and have supported 100% in any type of legislative issues that have come there way. I hate the outsourcing and not knowing that a qualified FAA certified mechanic based here in the US may not have worked on the flight I'm thinking of flying , scares the S out of me. And it should everyone else.

It's just a few of the posters on here that I have a problem with. By FAR not most of my Brothers and Sisters out there.

BTW thought about it after I hired on, just couldn't stand the idea of 10 years on midnights. No QOL in that to me. So I earn less than you but I'm fine with that.

 

[chilokie1]

 
How to Become an Aircraft and Avionics Equipment Mechanic or Technician About this section

Aircraft mechanics and avionics technicians are able to specialize in a wide range of systems, in maintenance, alterations, or inspections.

MOST aircraft and avionics equipment mechanics and technicians learn their trade at an FAA-APPROVED AVIATION MAINTENANCE TECHNICIAN SCHOOL.  ( Others) enter with a high school education or equivalent and are trained on the job.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Installation-Maintenance-and-Repair/Aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm#tab-4

The median annual wage for aircraft mechanics and service technicians was $55,210 in May 2012. The median wage is the wage at which half the workers in an occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. The lowest 10 percent of aircraft mechanics earned less than $35,190, and the top 10 percent earned more than $76,660. (Aren't you guys at Top Out AA TWU making about $75,000 currently, thanks TWU)

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Installation-Maintenance-and-Repair/Aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm#tab-5
 
Employment of aircraft and avionics equipment mechanics and technicians is projected to show little or no change from 2012 to 2022. 
Air traffic is expected to gradually increase over the coming decade. However, new aircraft are generally expected to require less maintenance than older aircraft. Airlines may continue to outsource maintenance work to specialized maintenance and repair shops both domestically and abroad. Increased specialization will allow maintenance facilities to use their resources more efficiently and therefore limit growth in the number of aircraft and avionics equipment mechanics and technicians.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Installation-Maintenance-and-Repair/Aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm#tab-6

BTW did you ever get that little dilemma solved where they classify you as unskilled or something like that? I did sign your petition to try and get that changed but maybe your head is already swelled enough?

You missed some important information so I highlighted them for you, BTW most AA AMT's 
fall under the MOST category very few fall under the OTHER category.

 

[dfw gen]

still NOTHING from the twu or association on what we are asking for. the same old same old, top secret negotiations WITH NO INFORMATION.What the hell have they been doing for the last six months.What the hell is going on management keeps telling us there is a "room full of money waiting for us" what are YOU doing about it association?
 
if everyone put  weaasle and nyer on ignore they would not be able to incite. they are just paid international stooges.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Well, just as I figured. 567s promised PowerPoint presentation of our initial contract position was not presented to us at our meeting yesterday. However there were plenty of excuses.

 

[WeAAsles]

You missed some important information so I highlighted them for you, BTW most AA AMT's 
fall under the MOST category very few fall under the OTHER category.

And I also agree that MOST Aircraft Maintenance Professionals should be classifies as skilled and the other should have it's own sub category on the DOL list. I have said in the past (Even as an FSC) that I agreed the two should be separated and signed the last petition.

I just have to think that there hasn't been enough advocacy among the members in the trade (Craft) to get that done? I think if it ever did happen all the other issues that your group faces could begin to fall in line? A change like that could be the foundation to improving those future job numbers (and pay) for your group and stopping all the damn outsourcing. (A contagion afflicting ALL of us)

I don't support the "Individuals" in your craft who feel that me and my group are the cause of all your woes and misfortunes. That story is way to large to pin on just one focus and you all know that.  

 

[AANOTOK]

And lets not forget (it has a way of staying with you for a while) that Hackman loaned the oversized brush he couldn't handle to some others who painted this big picture of fleet being sheep...Continually hear that the rampers are at or near the top of their peers when in reality we are #4. Since that was found out to be false, the new strategy is to label fleet as followers. "Some" of you guys do more harm with your mouths than good. Maybe some of those who refused to sign cards didn't like the way you presented it. Maybe you should try a new approach, one that doesn't disrespect fleet as a whole. But MARSHA MARSHA MARSHA has left the building and with it so has the AMFA drive (for now anyway.) A fresh approach seems to be sorely needed.

 

[Realityck]

Sad to say that there really is something wrong going on with people back in JFK? Not meant as a knock and I have to figure it's mostly the insane cost to live there. That's why there really should be some Geographic pay in our contracts? Really, seriously.

 
 I agree. Assuming the Locals support it, negotiating a basic Geographical premium based on a simplified COLA formula should be fair to all members

 

[trentrb211]

Sign a card.....it's not to late people. Get in the know and change is still possible. If you don't beleive then seek out a card. I'm sure it's not to hard to find one. Then if you find that card that should be proof enough that there is still a chance and get a VOTE!!!!!! You know the vote that we were promised but yet again we were lied to.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 I agree. Assuming the Locals support it, negotiating a basic Geographical premium based on a simplified COLA formula should be fair to all members

I'm in MIA and it is more expensive to live here than PHX, CLT, DFW and TUL. But it's cheaper than LAX, BOS, and especially SFO, JFK/LGA by far.

I'd have ZERO problem with people making at least a little more than I do in those more expensive locations.

I hope our negotiators take this calculator into consideration when they sit across from the company? It absolutely is fair that these people should be paid more than me.

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

 

[WeAAsles]

And lets not forget (it has a way of staying with you for a while) that Hackman loaned the oversized brush he couldn't handle to some others who painted this big picture of fleet being sheep...Continually hear that the rampers are at or near the top of their peers when in reality we are #4. Since that was found out to be false, the new strategy is to label fleet as followers. "Some" of you guys do more harm with your mouths than good. Maybe some of those who refused to sign cards didn't like the way you presented it. Maybe you should try a new approach, one that doesn't disrespect fleet as a whole. But MARSHA MARSHA MARSHA has left the building and with it so has the AMFA drive (for now anyway.) A fresh approach seems to be sorely needed.

It's absolutely by far not everyone but when these people on here spout off you do realize that they have numbers that think the same way. And you feel like they wouldn't give a rat's damn if you and I were making minimum wage with no benefits as long as they can get there's? I don't subscribe to that way of thinking for ANYONE who works hard, especially now for a company finally raking in Billions in profit.

 

[WeAAsles]

To put the topic back on track and maybe the GEO pay into perspective. Doing the calculations for what I make here in MIA compared to Brooklyn NY I'd have to make $12.50 an hour more to live the same lifestyle there or from $23.00 to $35.50 per hour. A MASSIVE difference.

Now yes it costs a premium to live in NYC (The greatest city in the world IMO) so yes you are on the hook for all the benefits you have in living there and should be somewhat. Just not to the degree you are right now.

To the people who think or say "Well they can or should move" FU. That's really not the way we should think about each other in a Union.

So yes I support and hope to see GEO pay in the JCBA's.

 

[chilokie1]

And I also agree that MOST Aircraft Maintenance Professionals should be classifies as skilled and the other should have it's own sub category on the DOL list. I have said in the past (Even as an FSC) that I agreed the two should be separated and signed the last petition.

I just have to think that there hasn't been enough advocacy among the members in the trade (Craft) to get that done? I think if it ever did happen all the other issues that your group faces could begin to fall in line? A change like that could be the foundation to improving those future job numbers (and pay) for your group and stopping all the damn outsourcing. (A contagion afflicting ALL of us)

I don't support the "Individuals" in your craft who feel that me and my group are the cause of all your woes and misfortunes. That story is way to large to pin on just one focus and you all know that.  

I never blamed any other work group, I only "blame" my own work group
for not going in what "I feel" is the best path.  I get "pissed off" at the TWU
for using its constitutional procedures to bypass its members to get the 
results "it wants",  not what its members want.
 I get pissed at AA for claiming they could care less who represents its employees
but does everything it can do to keep a union on property that it prefers.
For instance,  turning in a roster of M&R employee's that was intentionally incorrect.
Or better yet turning in a roster just hours after the Teamsters turned in their cards
for their faux drive (that is a story in itself), since we were not able to get our cards 
to DC by the end of the workday all our hard work was for not.
 I get pissed (not blame) at guys like you who refuse to see or accept the fact that
these things have happened, and why you are not furious that the TWU did not allow
you to choose regardless of your choice. 

 

[WeAAsles]

I never blamed any other work group, I only "blame" my own work group
for not going in what "I feel" is the best path.  I get "pissed off" at the TWU
for using its constitutional procedures to bypass its members to get the 
results "it wants",  not what its members want.
 I get pissed at AA for claiming they could care less who represents its employees
but does everything it can do to keep a union on property that it prefers.
For instance,  turning in a roster of M&R employee's that was intentionally incorrect.
Or better yet turning in a roster just hours after the Teamsters turned in their cards
for their faux drive (that is a story in itself), since we were not able to get our cards 
to DC by the end of the workday all our hard work was for not.
 I get pissed (not blame) at guys like you who refuse to see or accept the fact that
these things have happened, and why you are not furious that the TWU did not allow
you to choose regardless of your choice. 

Where did I say in any of these threads that these things didn't happen? I've read your side of those stories on here too many times to count now. Do some of them make sense, yes. Do they also go past the idea of maybe just a coincidence? In my mind they do. Have I ever gotten that side of the story from the people who were in office at that time? No. Would the people who are in office now pull any of those type of (possible) stunts? I don't think so or would like to think they wouldn't? (I didn't see them send out one thing against the group you like from the second they hit office, nothing. Did you? Honestly?) 

Am I pissed that we didn't get to vote on the idea of getting into this association? No. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that I guess neither Union at that moment believed they had the support or could sell the idea to the membership. I'm disappointed that people can't see that maybe it really is a good idea to join forces? That it's a better idea than people on both sides hating each others guts if they lost the representation they prefer? (AMFA was not in so you didn't lose anything. You just didn't get what you want) Maybe it was Jim Little who said don't vote, maybe Tom Buffenbarger, maybe both, maybe Trumka, maybe all of them? I HATE the "Maintaining the system ratio" BS that is only designed for dues and nothing more.

Am I glad that we didn't get to vote for the association under the parameters that the NMB probably would have placed us under? OH YEA!!!! I don't want a no union option to ever even come anywhere near my mailbox. Would I have been cool with a ballot that had choices without that part attached? Yes. But that was NOT going to happen and if we had to vote we knew how the ballot would look.

I really want to move forward and I really want the association to prove at the end of the day that it was a good idea after all. Am I positive that in the end it will be? No. They need to prove it to me. We all know what that will take and the emphasis is on the two Unions and the people who are currently in those leadership positions. 

I want to talk about gains and I want to talk about the topic now at the top of this thread. What are we asking for, what are we going to get and what are we going to ultimately accept?