Why the DOJ Wants to Clip Delta's Wings
- Thread starter traderjake
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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hey 700,
thought I would let you know that I have set up one of WN's "ding ding low fare" alert things so I can let you know when fares start to fall in the DCA-DFW market. When WN loads its new DCA-DAL fares, you can bet that AA will match - unless they want to watch the market move over to DFW.
We'll see where the pricing power is then.
I'll keep you posted.
oh and Kev,
thought that I would let you know that DL - with no asterisk - boards more passengers in all of Florida than WN or any other airline for that matter. Apparenly all of those cities like DAB, MLB, and SRQ and more that WN doesn't do generate enough passengers to overtake WN's size and it is true even if you take out DL's international passengers that connect thru one of their hubs.
Best part is that DL's average are about 30% higher which means that DL doesn't work near as hard to pick up more money.
thought I would let you know that I have set up one of WN's "ding ding low fare" alert things so I can let you know when fares start to fall in the DCA-DFW market. When WN loads its new DCA-DAL fares, you can bet that AA will match - unless they want to watch the market move over to DFW.
We'll see where the pricing power is then.
I'll keep you posted.
oh and Kev,
thought that I would let you know that DL - with no asterisk - boards more passengers in all of Florida than WN or any other airline for that matter. Apparenly all of those cities like DAB, MLB, and SRQ and more that WN doesn't do generate enough passengers to overtake WN's size and it is true even if you take out DL's international passengers that connect thru one of their hubs.
Best part is that DL's average are about 30% higher which means that DL doesn't work near as hard to pick up more money.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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Kev3188
Veteran
WorldTraveler said:
Great. I'm happy to hear it; both an "actual DL employee" and as a shareholder.
robbedagain
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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hurt what?
my point is and Always has been that the AA/US crowd that they might want to hold onto their notion of how the airline industry size rankings will be until the merger actually "Works itself out". There will be competitive movements including as a result of the WA and the DCA/LGA slot awards and AA/US' revenue will move.
As for the whole size rankings, last time I checked, all of the companies are for-profit enterprises with the goal to maximize earnings for shareholders. Profit-maximization on a long-term basis rarely involves being the largest if size doesn't translate into increased revenues.
ON the domestic system alone, DL generates higher revenues per enplanement than WN does. WN works harder and gets less revenue than DL for each revenue passenger. DL's domestic revenue premium is 112% of the industry average.
Still doesn't change that if you look at all Florida cities and not just the big 5 or so, DL is still larger than WN.
my point is and Always has been that the AA/US crowd that they might want to hold onto their notion of how the airline industry size rankings will be until the merger actually "Works itself out". There will be competitive movements including as a result of the WA and the DCA/LGA slot awards and AA/US' revenue will move.
As for the whole size rankings, last time I checked, all of the companies are for-profit enterprises with the goal to maximize earnings for shareholders. Profit-maximization on a long-term basis rarely involves being the largest if size doesn't translate into increased revenues.
ON the domestic system alone, DL generates higher revenues per enplanement than WN does. WN works harder and gets less revenue than DL for each revenue passenger. DL's domestic revenue premium is 112% of the industry average.
Still doesn't change that if you look at all Florida cities and not just the big 5 or so, DL is still larger than WN.
robbedagain
Veteran
So dl has to be bigger than wn and all other airlines in fl in all 50 states swamt I dont think wt will take u up on ur bet bro
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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no, robbed, DL doesn't have to be bigger. But they have a fleet strategy to be as large as they can in as many markets as possible because size translates into pricing power.
WN shares the same philosophy but they gained their size in much smaller and less competitive markets which is why they have size advantage in many cities but it hasn't yet translated into higher than average fares across the US.
WN's strategic focus on growing its presence in key business markets and to from Latin America and the Caribbean is part of their intent to bring their systemwide average fares up.
GIven that WN's costs are no longer significantly lower than their network peers, they cannot afford to have average fares that are significantly lower.
Given that WN's costs are still lower than AA and UA by a significant amount, they will pull traffic the most off of AA and UA in the very same way that DL has been able to pull traffic from AA and UA in both domestic and int'l markets because DL's costs are lower than AA and UA.
WN shares the same philosophy but they gained their size in much smaller and less competitive markets which is why they have size advantage in many cities but it hasn't yet translated into higher than average fares across the US.
WN's strategic focus on growing its presence in key business markets and to from Latin America and the Caribbean is part of their intent to bring their systemwide average fares up.
GIven that WN's costs are no longer significantly lower than their network peers, they cannot afford to have average fares that are significantly lower.
Given that WN's costs are still lower than AA and UA by a significant amount, they will pull traffic the most off of AA and UA in the very same way that DL has been able to pull traffic from AA and UA in both domestic and int'l markets because DL's costs are lower than AA and UA.
robbedagain
Veteran
Us has lower costs as well but once the md 80s are gone from aa I would think that the new aa wld have lower costs
Of course he won't. He always ignores or refuses to participate when he knows he is wrong, or will be proven wrong. When you see me hammering on someone out here constantly (only when they are wrong) it is because they are to proud to admit when they are wrong. 700 never challenges when he knows he is wrong, and he too has a challenge ahead of him concerning the TWU/IAM alliance vote, that he will refuse to take on because he already knows the answers he will be given by the NMB... It hurts their EGO's too much if they were to participate. It's in the US air threads @ IAM WINS...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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I have no idea who you are talking about if you are talking about me (since you quoted robbed's post), I am about as aggressive of a poster as anyone on this forum.
I'm not sure what you want to debate but the fact is that DL generates more revenue from its domestic system than WN even though it boards fewer passengers. AA and UA do too.
If WN wants to hold onto the title of being the US' largest domestic airline by passenger boardings, I am not challenging that.
Given that every airline in the US is for-profit, the goal is to gain the most revenue. Counting passengers as the highest goal is what mass transit systems do.... which might be why WN wants to hold onto the goal.
It also doesn't change that WN is not the largest passenger carrier by boardings in Florida overall. Right now that is DL. Based on a simple addition of what AA and US each carry now, they will be the largest after the merger. But there is no assurance that a simple addition of the current situation will hold true after the merger and that other carriers won't engage in their own internal growth strategies that wouldn't stop AA/US from claiming a lot of titles that they could hold. Some carriers including DL are not going to lose their revenue advantage in key markets as a result of the merger and size does have a key part in establishing and maintaining revenue advantages.
and it still doesn't change that I made the statement early on in this thread that DL is the largest network carrier in all of the major Florida cities except for MIA. 700 and Kev tried to argue that was a meaningless division while also wildly confusing real divisions that the US government uses to categorize US airlines.
DL doesn't try to compete for every passenger in Florida or other heavily leisure markets. Leisure passengers have virtually no brand loyalty and do not often lead to sustained profitability. B6 has low enough costs that they can carry some passengers that DL cannot. But B6's average fares in many markets are below DL's levels.
DL does compete with other network carriers because those are where the biggest corporate contracts are and the network airlines have the int'l networks that benefit from strong domestic networks including in FL.
WN's focus will be shifting more and more away from leisure markets to business markets as their costs continue to increase and as they have to raise their profit margins by using their resources to produce the highest revenues.
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