$12,000.00 Per Month?

[TWU informer]

I noticed this in the USAToday.

Retirements of $144,000.00 per year maybe why the airlines want to ditch these pensions and quickly.

How much does an AA Pilot retire with per month if he/she chooses not to exercise the lump sum option.

If they do excercise the lump sum option, what is that check worth?

I am interested to know these numbers.

I think a Mechanic leaves with about $42,000.00 per year, and the lump sum opition was unilaterally removed in the 1980's.

Pension funding problems grow
By Sue Kirchhoff, Stephanie Armour and Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Ray Brice, 62, of San Rafael, Calif., expected to cruise along after retiring as a United Airlines pilot two years ago with a $12,000-a-month pension. Not any more.
Last week's federal court ruling allowing United to terminate its drastically underfunded pension plan and pile $6.6 billion of liabilities onto a small federal agency, means his monthly check could be cut about 80%, to about $2,000.

Brice's situation is stark, but no longer unusual.

The United pension default — the largest in U.S. history — comes atop a string of bankruptcies and retirement plan meltdowns in the steel, retail and other industries in the past several years that have directly affected the retirement security of millions of Americans and prompted millions more to worry whether they're next.


Here is the complete article
Source for Above Information

 

[Buck]

I noticed this in the USAToday.

Retirements of $144,000.00 per year maybe why the airlines want to ditch these pensions and quickly.

How much does an AA Pilot retire with per month if he/she chooses not to exercise the lump sum option.

If they do excercise the lump sum option, what is that check worth?

I am interested to know these numbers.

I think a Mechanic leaves with about $42,000.00 per year, and the lump sum opition was unilaterally removed in the 1980's.

[post="270003"][/post]​

How was the mechanics lump sum option removed and by whom?

 

[TWU informer]

How was the mechanics lump sum option removed and by whom?

[post="270005"][/post]​

AA removed the lump sum option.

I filed a grievance, the TWU withdrew the grievance.

I believe it was extremely weak contract language that allowed AA to unilaterally eliminate the Mechanic and Related Lump Sum option from our pension.

Pilots still have Plan A and Plan B.

What I really wonder is the logic in a Pilot retirement paying over twice what a 25 year still employed AMT is making. The AMT still punches the clock for 40 hours a week maintaining highly sophisticated avionics and flight controls.

The Pilot, spends many hours on auto-pilot while the avionics and systems AMT flys the aircraft. Then the Pilot retires and goes home and still collects over two times what the working AMT is making.

Something just doesn't seem right about that to me.

I feel like I gave up my vacation time, sick time, Holidays, and paid Health benefits, to insure the Pilot can retire and have income that equals more than two times what I make working.

 

[AAmech]

What I really wonder is the logic in a Pilot retirement paying over twice what a 25 year still employed AMT is making. The AMT still punches the clock for 40 hours a week maintaining highly sophisticated avionics and flight controls.

The Pilot, spends many hours on auto-pilot while the aviaonics and systems AMT flys the aircraft. Then the Pilot retires and goes home and still collects over two times what the working AMT is making.

Something just doesn't seem right about that to me.

I feel like I gave up my vacation time, sick time, Holidays, and paid Health benefits, to insure the Pilot can retire and have income that equals more than two times what I make working.

[post="270008"][/post]​

WAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAA!!!!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

WAAAAA  WAAAAA  WAAAAA!!!!!!

[post="270033"][/post]​

Typical twu response...

You can also see their contract on jetnet under policies and procedures.

 

[TWU informer]

WAAAAA  WAAAAA  WAAAAA!!!!!!

[post="270033"][/post]​

That is an interesting response.

You not only defend the largest concessions in the industry.

You also, defend huge Pilot pensions while your own work group get shafted to the max.

Just who are we paying dues for representation anyway? Pilots or Ground Workers?

I guess in your mind, we pay two hours pay per month to insure the Pilot can retire and go fishing while drawing $144,000.00 per year? That is a sacred cow by golly.

 

[AA80Driver]

That is an interesting response.

You not only defend the largest concessions in the industry.

You also, defend huge Pilot pensions while your own work group get shafted to the max.

Just who are we paying dues for representation anyway? Pilots or Ground Workers?

I guess in your mind, we pay two hours pay per month to insure the Pilot can retire and go fishing while drawing $144,000.00 per year? That is a sacred cow by golly.

[post="270057"][/post]​

Pilot defined benefit plan: Final Average Earnings (FAE) X Years of Service (YOS) minus 1 year X 1.25%

Example: 767-300 Captain hired at age 30.

-$172/flight hour X 75 flight hours month = 154,800 FAE X .0125 X 29 yrs = 56,115 pension.

 

[Buck]

Pilot defined benefit plan: Final Average Earnings (FAE) X Years of Service (YOS) minus 1 year X 1.25%

Example: 767-300 Captain hired at age 30.

-$172/flight hour X 75 flight hours month = 154,800 FAE X .0125 X 29 yrs = 56,115 pension.

[post="270067"][/post]​

Now if you pilots would only fly, what is it, 83 hours on the company's behalf without bringing laid off pilots back

 

[Vortilon]

No No it gets better,

I was unable to confirm this; however, from what I hear AA pilots get both the plan A & B at retirement. The lump sum option pays them somewhere between one and two million dollars depending on years of service and equipment flown. The monthly pay out pays roughly 80% of what they were making while working. Damn near like winning the lotto. So a big thankyou to all you non pilot types contributing to the pilot retirement fund. Hey, don't forget about the fire trucks at the airport coming out and shooting arks of water for the retiring captain to taxi through on his final taxi to the gate - How much does that cost?

On another note, the question was posed "why was the lump sum option taken away from non pilot types?" . The answer is that the lump sum was inadequate, and too many people were retiring and burning through the money before their time came. Anyway, what you had is a bunch of sixty and seventy somethings wanting to come back to work cause they had no money. So, in an effort to staunch this phenomenon - AA stopped the lump sum option for non pilots.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Pilot defined benefit plan: Final Average Earnings (FAE) X Years of Service (YOS) minus 1 year X 1.25%

Example: 767-300 Captain hired at age 30.

-$172/flight hour X 75 flight hours month = 154,800 FAE X .0125 X 29 yrs = 56,115 pension.

[post="270067"][/post]​

PLUS ++++

Are we forgetting the lump sum? <_< <_<

 

[AA80Driver]

PLUS ++++

Are we forgetting the lump sum? <_< <_<

[post="270073"][/post]​

You choose either the annuity or the lump sum. Most individuals opt for the lump sum, which is simply the net present value of the annuity at the current interest rate.

 

[AMFAMAN]

You choose either the annuity or the lump sum. Most individuals opt for the lump sum, which is simply the net present value of the annuity at the current interest rate.

[post="270082"][/post]​

So what you're saying is that you get either the A or the B plan? Also, a few years back alot of pilots bailed out because(per the papers) the lump sum was tied into the stock price, just wondering if there is a connection to it?

 

[AA80Driver]

So what you're saying is that you get either the A or the B plan? Also, a few years back alot of pilots bailed out because(per the papers) the lump sum was tied into the stock price, just wondering if there is a connection to it?

[post="270086"][/post]​

No, the original post related to defined benefit so my response pertains only to the defined benefit plan.

The B Fund is a defined contribution into what is essentially a value fund. Given the wide variables in contributions, time on furlough, market volatility, and timeframe until retirement, it would be very difficult to predict an average value in todays dollars, just like it would be difficult to forecast the average 401k value at retirment for any other work group.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

WAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAA!!!!!!

[post="270033"][/post]​

Still showing your ignorance and cowardice are you aamech? Will wonders never cease?

If the pilots retire with whatever they can retire with because of their negotiating skills more power to them. Something to say about good negotiating skills. Something the twu never learned. The last contract that AMTs at AA negotiated was negotiated by AMFA at NWA. And even then the twu couldn't do better.

As for removing the lump sums for AMTs aamech why don't you tell us why that took place. Better yet, why don't you tell us all when our snap back clause kicks in. You know, when do AMTs get back everything little and gang stole from us.

Keep your juvenile antics under managements desk. Let true professionals exchange ideas/comments on the internet.

 

[AAmech]

Still showing your ignorance and cowardice are you aamech? Will wonders never cease?

If the pilots retire with whatever they can retire with because of their negotiating skills more power to them. Something to say about good negotiating skills. Something the twu never learned. The last contract that AMTs at AA negotiated was negotiated by AMFA at NWA. And even then the twu couldn't do better.

[post="270099"][/post]​

Oh yeah, Right!! Its all about their "Negotiating Skills". Doesn't their Skill Level and Education have something to do with their compensation? What your negotiating WITH counts a lot more than WHO is doing your negotiations.