12 former executives had pension plan terminated WHA!

[real world]

[blockquote]
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On 1/19/2003 9:00:43 PM PineyBob wrote:

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On 1/19/2003 7:31:02 PM real world wrote:

On what authority do you say they are not through with us. Your speculation into the unknown is unfounded and baseless. These comments do nothing to help rebuild the moral of employees and help us move forward. Until you have something to base your comments on keep you "end of the world" thoughts to yourself.
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[/blockquote]

On what Authority?? Perhaps you didn't read your press release carefully MR. Kompany Kool Aid Drinker! It says in there that if the legaslative effort fails that US will have "no choice" but to terminate the ALPA pension plan and negotiate one to take it's place. What could be clearer? Stevie Wonder can see that!

Now I'll grant you that mlt may have over reacted, but essentially he is on point. What is to stop them from terminating the other 2 penion plans? Please enlighten us! Perhaps you have some thoughts on this post and my previous post that you would care to respond to.

I hate to confuse you with facts since you feel I am so "Uninformed". Typical of the arrogance of CCY - They know everything about PAX, airlines and employees and are not afraid to share their wisdom with us! When oh when Mr. Real World will you tell us how to make a profit? Since US has sooooo much credibility in that area. Have a nice day
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[/blockquote]
1. The pilot pension issue has been known from the begining that it is questionable and may not be sustained and I agree that has been clear from the begining Ray Charles!!!!

2. Nothing is to stop them from doing anything. However my question to MLT why was he was saying a third round of concessions were a forgone conclusion, that is not the case.

3. I labeled you uninformed about a particular issue, not everything in general. I actually think you make some good points after you get past the retorhic and we must be doing something right becuase you are Chairmans Perf.. Secondly as for profitabilty I agree we have a poor track record in that regard and that is why we are bankrupt and why we must make fundamental changes to become a profitable airline. Nobody would disagree with you that our previous business plan and cost structure were ineffective. However we are making many chages and I am confident we can turn this franchise around and hope you will contiue to be a CP.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 1/19/2003 9:00:43 PM PineyBob wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/19/2003 7:31:02 PM real world wrote:

On what authority do you say they are not through with us. Your speculation into the unknown is unfounded and baseless. These comments do nothing to help rebuild the moral of employees and help us move forward. Until you have something to base your comments on keep you "end of the world" thoughts to yourself.
----------------
[/blockquote]

On what Authority?? Perhaps you didn't read your press release carefully MR. Kompany Kool Aid Drinker! It says in there that if the legaslative effort fails that US will have "no choice" but to terminate the ALPA pension plan and negotiate one to take it's place. What could be clearer? Stevie Wonder can see that!

Now I'll grant you that mlt may have over reacted, but essentially he is on point. What is to stop them from terminating the other 2 penion plans? Please enlighten us! Perhaps you have some thoughts on this post and my previous post that you would care to respond to.

I hate to confuse you with facts since you feel I am so "Uninformed". Typical of the arrogance of CCY - They know everything about PAX, airlines and employees and are not afraid to share their wisdom with us! When oh when Mr. Real World will you tell us how to make a profit? Since US has sooooo much credibility in that area. Have a nice day
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[/blockquote]
You mean Mr. Company Kool-aid maker! Mlt is totally correct. Company states that the other two pension plans are not at risk...but they keep draging in the total pension amount of $3.1 billion, which includes the other two group's pension. I am sure the other groups are getting ready for this, "save your company, save your pensions" whoopla that will coming out of the "mouth of these babes"!

 

[delldude]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE] [BR][BR] Perhaps you didn't read your press release carefully MR. Kompany Kool Aid Drinker! [/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]You mean Mr. Company Kool-aid maker!

 

[PITbull]

H-e-y...where you get that...Lovin it DellDude!

 

[real world]

[blockquote]
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On 1/19/2003 10:09:25 PM PITbull wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 1/19/2003 9:00:43 PM PineyBob wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/19/2003 7:31:02 PM real world wrote:

On what authority do you say they are not through with us. Your speculation into the unknown is unfounded and baseless. These comments do nothing to help rebuild the moral of employees and help us move forward. Until you have something to base your comments on keep you "end of the world" thoughts to yourself.
----------------
[/blockquote]

On what Authority?? Perhaps you didn't read your press release carefully MR. Kompany Kool Aid Drinker! It says in there that if the legaslative effort fails that US will have "no choice" but to terminate the ALPA pension plan and negotiate one to take it's place. What could be clearer? Stevie Wonder can see that!

Now I'll grant you that mlt may have over reacted, but essentially he is on point. What is to stop them from terminating the other 2 penion plans? Please enlighten us! Perhaps you have some thoughts on this post and my previous post that you would care to respond to.

I hate to confuse you with facts since you feel I am so "Uninformed". Typical of the arrogance of CCY - They know everything about PAX, airlines and employees and are not afraid to share their wisdom with us! When oh when Mr. Real World will you tell us how to make a profit? Since US has sooooo much credibility in that area. Have a nice day
----------------
[/blockquote]
You mean Mr. Company Kool-aid maker! Mlt is totally correct. Company states that the other two pension plans are not at risk...but they keep draging in the total pension amount of $3.1 billion, which includes the other two group's pension. I am sure the other groups are getting ready for this, "save your company, save your pensions" whoopla that will coming out of the "mouth of these babes"!
----------------
[/blockquote]
MLT is totally incorrect, just because they state the pension liabilty at $3.1 billion, it does not mean they are planning to eliminate the other pensions. Secondly if they wanted to they would had to make that part of the filing which it was not. I may be drinking the kool laid but at least I willing to do my part to make us a succesful airline. All your complaining does not help any of us, quit if you don't trust these guys, otherwise shut-up an get with the program - you have a choice.

 

[PITbull]

Well, Mr. Real World-Kool-aid man,

Then I'm takin you at your word...from your lips to God's ears that the IAM and AFA pensions are not included in managements though process.

AS far as asking everyone to "quit" if they don't like what the "new plan" is...that is like saying leave America if you are going to complain. Why think to change anything, just leave...

That statement, my friend is totally Un-American. We will stay and live to see better days..why? CAUSE WE EMPLOYEES DID IT FOR DAVE! We ARE the plan and we will see and partake in "better days"! The industry will get in line for now, but like anything in life, history does repeat itself. There will be a better economy, higher stock markets, higher interest rates, lower fuel prices, and better days...Sooo, WE are staying for this ride, and our day WILL come again for improvements, hope you will stay a little to watch it happen "on your watch".

 

[real world]

[blockquote]
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On 1/20/2003 12:03:48 AM PITbull wrote:

Well, Mr. Real World-Kool-aid man,

Then I'm takin you at your word...from your lips to God's ears that the IAM and AFA pensions are not included in managements though process.

AS far as asking everyone to "quit" if they don't like what the "new plan" is...that is like saying leave America if you are going to complain. Why think to change anything, just leave...

That statement, my friend is totally Un-American. We will stay and live to see better days..why? CAUSE WE EMPLOYEES DID IT FOR DAVE! We ARE the plan and we will see and partake in "better days"! The industry will get in line for now, but like anything in life, history does repeat itself. There will be a better economy, higher stock markets, higher interest rates, lower fuel prices, and better days...Sooo, WE are staying for this ride, and our day WILL come again for improvements, hope you will stay a little to watch it happen "on your watch".


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[/blockquote]
I hope I am right too.........

 

[autofixer]

PineyBob, I meant that Dave lied to the pilots about the pension issue. The pilots gave twice to save their pension. Dave now says we are going to terminate your pension. How about the pilots who have been retired for 10 or more years? How do you think they are going to survive? I guess at age 72, you can sell your house of 50 years and move to the retirement village. At least if U liquidated, you could accept this, but this is totally unacceptable.

Me, I don't really care. I left U 20 days ago to go and make my way on my own. My business model is simple. Anytime I make a decision, I think, "What would USAir do?" I then do the opposite! I also will treat my employees well.

 

[diogenes]

[blockquote]
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On 1/19/2003 1125 PM real world wrote:

[com/idealbb/images/smilies/7.gif']
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[/blockquote]
MLT is totally incorrect, just because they state the pension liabilty at $3.1 billion, it does not mean they are planning to eliminate the other pensions. Secondly if they wanted to they would had to make that part of the filing which it was not. I may be drinking the kool laid but at least I willing to do my part to make us a succesful airline. All your complaining does not help any of us, quit if you don't trust these guys, otherwise shut-up an get with the program - you have a choice.
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[/blockquote]
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1. I don't think ALPA is going to stand for IAM/AFA DBRP's being maintained while theirs goes under. It'd be wiser to assume all DBRP's are goners.

2. US Air policy, love it or leave it? Pure facism. Why is it either/or? People are more complex than that. Why can't one work hard to make U a success, yet question policy?

On this day, imagine telling Dr. Martin Luther King 40 years ago, "America, love it or leave it."

To all the he//raisers, dissenters, and the civil disobedient that question the establishment, and speak truth to power - God bless you -we'd be all the poorer without you.

 

[PITbull]

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On 1/20/2003 12:55:40 PM diogenes wrote:

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On 1/19/2003 1125 PM real world wrote:

[com/idealbb/images/smilies/7.gif']
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[/blockquote]
MLT is totally incorrect, just because they state the pension liabilty at $3.1 billion, it does not mean they are planning to eliminate the other pensions. Secondly if they wanted to they would had to make that part of the filing which it was not. I may be drinking the kool laid but at least I willing to do my part to make us a succesful airline. All your complaining does not help any of us, quit if you don't trust these guys, otherwise shut-up an get with the program - you have a choice.
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[/blockquote]
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1. I don't think ALPA is going to stand for IAM/AFA DBRP's being maintained while theirs goes under. It'd be wiser to assume all DBRP's are goners.

2. US Air policy, love it or leave it? Pure facism. Why is it either/or? People are more complex than that. Why can't one work hard to make U a success, yet question policy?

On this day, imagine telling Dr. Martin Luther King 40 years ago, "America, love it or leave it."

To all the he//raisers, dissenters, and the civil disobedient that question the establishment, and speak truth to power - God bless you -we'd be all the poorer without you.
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[/blockquote]

Amen! We should and always strive for change and impoving our working conditions. Just as management sits down yearly and gets reviewed for job performance and recieves yearly increases and bonuses; Labor on the other hand, gets the opportunity when contracts get amendable...for us..that is 6 years down the road.

 

[diogenes]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 814 PM zonecontroller wrote:

On Thursday, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Stephen Mitchell heard objections to the restructuring plan, a group of 12 former executives, including former CEO Seth Schofield, who had their supplemental pension plan terminated.

http://www.newsday.com/business/nationworl...iness-headlines

Its nice to see the big boys take a hit once in awhile! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/13.gif']
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and let's pay attention to the details here - it's their supplemental pension plan getting whacked, not their main pension plan. i suspect it's just walking around money for these guys, and pr bullhockey from the company to show how 'fair' they are, cutting the top dogs a bit.

but, it's better than nothing![img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif']

 

[PITbull]

RealWorld,

I would like to comment on your statement "that there is nothing from keeping them from doing anything" (co.)

Labor groups had bought themselves a 1113 letter through ratification; which from management's retorhic was as good as "solid gold", and that that was the only thing that would protect the groups from abrogation of their agreements. The co. said they would honor the 1113 letter for those groups who ratified their agreements this past summer. Somehow I get the impression from your writing that that perhaps could change? Being that there would be NOTHING that would keep them from doing anything...

Do you think this management would ignore the 1113 component to our summer "ratified agreements? Do you think they would be capable of this kind of atrocity?
Do you? Will you answer the questions, or will you avoid them?

 

[real world]

[blockquote]
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On 1/20/2003 5:23:52 PM PITbull wrote:

RealWorld,

I would like to comment on your statement "that there is nothing from keeping them from doing anything" (co.)

Labor groups had bought themselves a 1113 letter through ratification; which from management's retorhic was as good as "solid gold", and that that was the only thing that would protect the groups from abrogation of their agreements. The co. said they would honor the 1113 letter for those groups who ratified their agreements this past summer. Somehow I get the impression from your writing that that perhaps could change? Being that there would be NOTHING that would keep them from doing anything...

Do you think this management would ignore the 1113 component to our summer "ratified agreements? Do you think they would be capable of this kind of atrocity?
Do you? Will you answer the questions, or will you avoid them?

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[/blockquote]
Pitbull,


I am more than happy to answer your questions; however I choose not to answer Pineybob's as his real agenda is to entice anger and hatred amongst employee groups of US Airways specifically pitting management against the labor groups. I am not sure of his agenda however my speculation is that he is a disgruntled furloughed US Airways marketing employee trying to seek revenge and therefore I will no longer enter into a discussion with him.

As for your question I truly believe the company plans to stand behind all of their 1113 letters and would not have any reason to believe otherwise. Based on the recently ratified concessions the company (pilot pension excluded) has what they need to move forward. Finally Pitbull on a personal note I have no inside information just my opinions and therefore anything is possible. However Pitbull I want this company to succed and I want all of us to be successful and prosperous together - that is my only desire. All of my comments are with that in mind.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 1/20/2003 7:37:10 PM PineyBob wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
I am more than happy to answer your questions; however I choose not to answer Pineybob's as his real agenda is to entice anger and hatred amongst employee groups of US Airways specifically pitting management against the labor groups. I am not sure of his agenda however my speculation is that he is a disgruntled furloughed US Airways marketing employee trying to seek revenge and therefore I will no longer enter into a discussion with him.
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[/blockquote]

Once again the arrogance of CCY rears it's ugly head. I am a very loyal PAX who later on this week will be interviewed by A major publication about the Cockroach group that has formed in response to the continued arrogance of CCY in general and B Ben Baldanza in particular.

So just where did you get the idea I was a laid off marketing employee? I just spent the last 15 minutes filling out the comment cards for the F/A's from my last flight. How dare you profess to know my agenda? must be your airline training, assuming that you have all the answers when in fact you know nothing about me.

See Real World I don't need to do this. I am one fax away from being comped to CO One Pass Platnium Elite and if I ever send that fax it will be because of people like you! Not Chip, Delldude, Cavilier, Dea Certe, Diogenes and all of the front line types who give US your competitive advantage. Trust me it's not the world reknown genius of CCY that keeps me flying US. It's the Piedmont supr in GRR, the G/A in Ottawa, My friend Fran in ACY who keeps me up on all the ACY gossip. the nice ladies at the PHL US Air Club and on it goes Real World.

I found it interesting that when the weather got bad and you were confronted with direct comments and questions you chose to hide in the tall grass and dismiss me in an effort to avoid confronting the issues at hand. Like I said before typical behavior of a risk averse CYA mid level functionary who manages to keep their job not by performance but by building alliances with senior people who protect them. I have observed your species in the field. If Mr. Seigel is a Captain of industry, you sir are a gelding! With that i bid you adieu. Respond or don't. I swore off flaming but you managed to get under my skin.

PS: My agenda for the record Sir is purely selfish! I am a PAX who enjoys the service that US provides both from its well trained proficient front line staff and its comprehensive route structure east of the Mississippi. It is perfect for my business. My beef has and continues to be middle & upper level management and their inability to turn a profit so the airline can grow and I can place all 136 of my segments with US instead of just 104. I want my Dividend Miles account to be safe and to grow rapidly. I want the morale issues resolved as well. But only because it is good business for me. Trust me the other posters will vouch that I have made no secret of my selfish motives in having this all work out. And if brow beating guys like you into understanding what some of the PAX feel about you and your associates at CCY then so be it.

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[/blockquote]

PineyBob,

You just spoke to the "big man" upstairs...the Great OZ in the Crystal Palace...I know its him; I know his writing...trust me on this one.

 

[PITbull]

PineyBob,

First off, I am PITbull, not PITguy.

As far as what is worse arrogance or hypocracy, I think both are at the bottom of the heap.