A captain''s pay

[737nCH11]

To be honest with you, I don't think I have ever had a month that I didn't fly between 75 and 80 hours hard time. My schedule this month has me at 81 hours hard time which translates into 81 hours credit. Credit time is rarely an extra hour or two.

p.s. If you point out these schedules with only 50 hours hard time I will gladly bid one.

 

[laxmmm]

Bore said,
Does that productive time include reading the USAToday behind the closed door while the AC is on A/P at 350? I was simply trying to illustrate that if say you made 10,000 a month and flew 50 hrs. "Hard time" and you compare that to an SWA pilot flying 85 hrs "hard time" , the hourly rate is quite different. But since you get all that "Free" money, I can see why your whining.
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[/blockquote]
Dear Bore,
It's quite obvious that when it comes to the operational end of aviation that you don't have a clue so I won't waste my time on the subject. As far as the numbers that you are throughing out, they only show that once again, you are clueless. I've been flying domestic and international for 15 years and can assure you that lines with much if any "soft time" are very rare. If you're going to use numbers you better have the facts to back them up. Now go enjoy your USA Today in the break room. And while I'm at it, I have 2 brothers who are mechs. I know what goes on behind the scenes in the mech world so don't try to B.S. anybody with how productive you are.[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/14.gif']

 

[Cfm56]

Found this on an AOL site. Interesting:


As a pilot with an airline with a defined contribution plan (generously matched 401K) I warned my friends at other airlines with defined benefit plans. My 401K is my money no matter if the company goes Ch. 11 or 7, while, as some are learning, the traditional pension plans are "owned" by the company and 'things' can happen with it. Additionaly my 401K money can be enherited by heirs when I die, unlike a defined benefit plan. Sure, the defined benefit plans have some advantages, but as Braniff, EAL, Pan Am, found out and UAL and U pilots are finding out, some very big minuses. I remember when debating all this with a UAL pilot a several years ago, he said "...there was certainly nothing for HIM to worry about as UAL has a different future than EAL" and he sorta laughed at my points. Wonder if he's still laughing?

 

[GGpillow]

A question to the pilots here then. If their are no or very very few of these lines with a lot of soft time, where does the company get the average of ... what was it, 36-40 hrs a month. Are they straight up being dishonest, or are, (And I'm just throwing a dart here) the pilots at TK teaching, training etc included in that average.
Guys, this isin't a flame, or an accusation, I am simply wondering where the huge gap is coming from, and, not being a pilot, I really don't have any idea as to where the number discrepancy comes from.

 

[laxmmm]

GG,
Off the top of my head they average in things like vacation, sick time and training time trip drops.

 

[kirk]

GG,
They simply have added all the hours flown by each fleet type(which is at the bottom of each pilots bid pack) for the month. Then divided that by the number of pilots for the month. This gives you an average. If its accurate sort of depends on what you want it to prove. But, I will point out the numbers used to show our pilots are less productive than the other airlines did use the period when the 727 and 737-200 fleets were parked in 1 day . This caused at one point in the training backlog to have approx. 1,600 pilots not to be flying. This one factor alone makes our productivity look awful. But , who's fault was that. Anyhow, now you can see how they come up with those numbers.

P.S. I dont recall seeing more than 12 hours ever between actual and credit times in a bid pack.

Kirk

 

[gogogadget]

Its not the employees!!!! AMR wants 1.8 billion in concessions from its employees. They are burning $5million per day and at 365 days in a year, guess what, 5x365=1.8billion evidently, because no one buys tickets and the govt charges to much for taxes and security, it is our fault!

That is BS

Fortune ran a great article recently about how pensions are going away. Well worth the reading for those interested in behind the scenes thievery by the exec types.

Regardless of who much we are perceived to make, we are all working class. Did you know a harbor pilot makes in excess of $300k and a heavy crane operator makes $100k plus per year? Same with some longshoremen!

 

[Borescope]

[blockquote]
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On 3/6/2003 2:52:24 PM laxmmm wrote:


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[/blockquote]

It's quite obvious that when it comes to the operational end of aviation that you don't have a clue so I won't waste my time on the subject.
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[/blockquote]


Son, you were still in diapers when I started in this industry. 15 Years, lets see, you must be a junior 737 Capt? You've just drank to much coolaid from ALPA and your MEC to understand the realities of the situation at hand.

 

[dogdriver]

[blockquote]
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On 3/8/2003 12:53:04 AM Borescope wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 3/6/2003 2:52:24 PM laxmmm wrote:


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[/blockquote]

It's quite obvious that when it comes to the operational end of aviation that you don't have a clue so I won't waste my time on the subject.
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[/blockquote]


Son, you were still in diapers when I started in this industry. 15 Years, lets see, you must be a junior 737 Capt? You've just drank to much coolaid from ALPA and your MEC to understand the realities of the situation at hand.
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[/blockquote]

BS,
That's right Borescope, you tell em. I'll bet you were one of those guys that had to walk to school, both ways, uphill, with holes in your shoes during snow storms. Boy they sure don't make them like they used to. By the way, with all of those years of wisdom under your belt, just what do you know about the operational end of airline flying? Don't get nasty now, just looking for facts.

 

[retread]

Wow!, I thought I was on the AAA page with all this pilot bashing going on. UAL pilots trust me, as long as you make a dollar more than the other groups they will say your overpaid. After awhile it just sounds like a broken record. Ignore them and move on.


Good Luck.

An overpaid, evil AAA mainline pilot

 

[Borescope]

[blockquote]
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Dogdriver wrote:

I'll bet you were one of those guys that had to walk to school, both ways, uphill, with holes in your shoes during snow storms.
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[/blockquote]

Hey, I'm sorry I forgot to put that in my post. Those were tough days!!

 

[spacewaitress]

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 9:31:14 PM kirk wrote:
But, I will point out the numbers used to show our pilots are less productive than the other airlines did use the period when the 727 and 737-200 fleets were parked in 1 day . This caused at one point in the training backlog to have approx. 1,600 pilots not to be flying. This one factor alone makes our productivity look awful.
Kirk
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[/blockquote]

Can you verify this statement with some sort of citation, accessibe for those of us who would like to verify it. I've heard this before, but the productivity/hour spread between the carriers doesn't seem great enough to support the assertion.

Inquiring minds want to know for sure.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

[blockquote]
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On 3/4/2003 10:54:07 PM ALPAAV8R wrote:

Dubinsky's statement is one of the most succinctly stated bald truths that I've ever heard uttered. It's just too bad that so many people can't handle the truth and would prefer a reach around or some quality glad handing...


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Except your customers, the ultimate golden goose, don't like being choked.

Especially if there is no reach around to ease the discomfort....

 

[kirk]

[blockquote]
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On 3/12/2003 10:48:37 AM spacewaitress wrote:

[blockquote]

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On 3/7/2003 9:31:14 PM kirk wrote:

But, I will point out the numbers used to show our pilots are less productive than the other airlines did use the period when the 727 and 737-200 fleets were parked in 1 day . This caused at one point in the training backlog to have approx. 1,600 pilots not to be flying. This one factor alone makes our productivity look awful.

Kirk

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[/blockquote]


Can you verify this statement with some sort of citation, accessibe for those of us who would like to verify it. I've heard this before, but the productivity/hour spread between the carriers doesn't seem great enough to support the assertion.


Inquiring minds want to know for sure.
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[/blockquote]
I don't have any paper that shows how this worked. What I do have are friends at TK telling me about training pilots in aug. 02 that haven't flown since oct. 01 because of the parking of 99 planes on 1 day(75-727's and 24-737's) on oct. 31, 01. This caused massive problems in training due to all the bumping plus the ongoing surplusing and furloughing all at the same time. This all put together at its peak had approx. 1600 pilots at home awaiting training. If you work at United just ask around at TK, WHQ , or some line pilots. It wasnt a big secret. Also ,I could point out many of the poor productivity arguments made by mgmt. comparing UAL pilots vs. LCC pilots. So here is one more UA has 3 pilots on two man plane to europe (required by FAA when flt over 8 hours) 3 day id with 18 hours of flying by 3 pilots. SWA 3 days of flying is 20 hours of flying by 2 pilots(they dont fly any legs over 8 hours)so who is more productive. ____Its comparing apples and oranges using this stat._______By the way the math gets worse when using the 747's to asia.