A union''s responsibility

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,885
80
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
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On 3/6/2003 5:20:38 PM will fix for food wrote:

Is it a Union's responsibility to protect it/s members jobs, meaning, attempting to reduce lay-offs wherever possible, or to preserve the current payscale even if it means that more members will be hitting the street? What is the primary job function of the union in your view?
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[/blockquote]


Hmmmm,

I believe the way it is suppose to be is that the members are the union. I know this hard to believe given your current dictatorship and dues collection agency.

If we are the union, the majority should decide the fate of all. Example, not enough AMFA cards were signed and so the majority spoke. The TWU will decide for us.
 
Aug 20, 2002
664
50
Is it a Union''s responsibility to protect it/s members jobs, meaning, attempting to reduce lay-offs wherever possible, or to preserve the current payscale even if it means that more members will be hitting the street? What is the primary job function of the union in your view?
 
Aug 20, 2002
664
50
[blockquote]
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On 3/6/2003 5:43:17 PM RV4 wrote:

Hmmmm,

I believe the way it is suppose to be is that the members are the union. I know this hard to believe given your current dictatorship and dues collection agency.

If we are the union, the majority should decide the fate of all. Example, not enough AMFA cards were signed and so the majority spoke. The TWU will decide for us.
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[/blockquote]


Since you brought it up, about the only way I can think of to make that work is to provide every employee a questionaire in the form of a computer program like Supersaver uses. Have each item listed and the savings it produces and when it adds up to 100% of the agreed upon cost savings target you are done. Each member could cast his or her vote that way in how it should be done.
 

Boomer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,139
70
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
--Benjamin Franklin, 1759

American Airlines structures their proposals around the revenue needed to obtain their goals.

The TWU-ATD structures their results around the demographics needed to obtain their goals.

Nowhere in the equation of either party are the needs of the members included.

Neither AA or the TWU want a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

Last contract, the integration agreement was "ironclad" to protect our members; it now seems to be as stained as Clintons' recollection under oath, or, a certain ladys' dress. In both cases: time and "evidence" told the truth, not the individuals that were talking.

This contract(and a concessionary contract voted in by the members is a 2008 contract) the ATD is "not-negotiating" while they are "rejecting" "sub-standard" offers from American while performing their "Good-Faith" non-negotiations which are required under the bankruptcy code----except that American is not in bankruptcy....

It would appear that the TWU lambs should prepare themselves for the same type of stains that a certain ladys' dress endured. In the end, time and evidence will tell the tale.
 
Aug 20, 2002
9,978
674
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/6/2003 5:20:38 PM will fix for food wrote:

Is it a Union's responsibility to protect it/s members jobs, meaning, attempting to reduce lay-offs wherever possible, or to preserve the current payscale even if it means that more members will be hitting the street? What is the primary job function of the union in your view?
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[/blockquote]

"WFFF"

You pose a "tough call".

IMHO, if faced with that choice, I think preserving pay and benifits will win out, by the slimest of margins.
In other words, protect seniority.

IMHO, I STRONGLY feel that if your senior to me, and you've "paid your dues", by enduring crummy contracts, etc, than YOU should NEVER have to sacrifice ANYTHING, that you've gained, over the years, that I was'nt even employeed at AA, in order to keep ME on active payroll !!!!!!

Again, it's a "close call", but that's the way it was in the GOOD OL' DAYS. (AND BY GOD, DO I MISS THE "GOOD OL' DAYS") !!!!!

NH/BB's
 

WXGuesser

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
234
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 5:03:51 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
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IMHO, if faced with that choice, I think preserving pay and benifits will win out, by the slimest of margins.
In other words, protect seniority.

IMHO, I STRONGLY feel that if your senior to me, and you've "paid your dues", by enduring crummy contracts, etc, than YOU should NEVER have to sacrifice ANYTHING, that you've gained, over the years, that I was'nt even employeed at AA, in order to keep ME on active payroll !!!!!!

Again, it's a "close call", but that's the way it was in the GOOD OL' DAYS. (AND BY GOD, DO I MISS THE "GOOD OL' DAYS") !!!!!

NH/BB's
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[/blockquote]

Wise old "Bear",

While you are right about what a Union *should* do, remember that the TWU has become, for all intents and purposes, a business entity. IMHO, They are going to try to protect that dues money with every ounce of energy. And they are going to get a whole lot more money over time out of us "young'uns" than they will out of folks who are going to retire in a few years (or sooner if their pay gets chopped)! They get the same dues money out of topped out people whether they have been here 15 years or 35 years. Plus the company has to give less sick time/vac time to 15-year guys than to 35 year guys. Company wins (less vac. time/bennies), TWU wins (preserve headcount=preserve dues).

What do you think is going to happen??????????????


Peace!!!!!
 
Aug 20, 2002
9,978
674
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/7/2003 8:19:07 PM WXGuesser wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/7/2003 5:03:51 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
----------------

IMHO, if faced with that choice, I think preserving pay and benifits will win out, by the slimest of margins.
In other words, protect seniority.

IMHO, I STRONGLY feel that if your senior to me, and you've "paid your dues", by enduring crummy contracts, etc, than YOU should NEVER have to sacrifice ANYTHING, that you've gained, over the years, that I was'nt even employeed at AA, in order to keep ME on active payroll !!!!!!

Again, it's a "close call", but that's the way it was in the GOOD OL' DAYS. (AND BY GOD, DO I MISS THE "GOOD OL' DAYS") !!!!!

NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]

Wise old "Bear",

While you are right about what a Union *should* do, remember that the TWU has become, for all intents and purposes, a business entity. IMHO, They are going to try to protect that dues money with every ounce of energy. And they are going to get a whole lot more money over time out of us "young'uns" than they will out of folks who are going to retire in a few years (or sooner if their pay gets chopped)! They get the same dues money out of topped out people whether they have been here 15 years or 35 years. Plus the company has to give less sick time/vac time to 15-year guys than to 35 year guys. Company wins (less vac. time/bennies), TWU wins (preserve headcount=preserve dues).

What do you think is going to happen??????????????


Peace!!!!!

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[/blockquote]
WXguesser;
(Sadly) my gut feeling is that the "juniors, will out vote the seniors",which plays right into AA's hands, because AA wants to keep the operation as status quo, as possible, but to be able to run the company at a low cost.

I'm not saying that us "older" folks are better, JUST SMARTER.
In the old days, you fought the company everystep of the way TO PRESERVE JOBS.
The younger folks seem to think that it's ok to work with the company "sometimes", and just a "little", at that.
What they "seem" to be losing sight of, is every time you "give ground", that you ultimately wind up CORNHOLE/ING your self, "in the long run" !!!
Oh, by the way,
"In the long run", refers to the folks that hope to keep working, for a "LONG TIME"(namely THE YOUNGER FOLKS!!!)

AA feared the unions, not so long ago. It's painfully obvious that AA no longer feels that way. IMHO, thats due to the fact, that there (NOW) a lot of "folks" who are willing to "play ball" with the company, even if "Just a little".

I'll leave you with a couple of "sayings".
Pick the one that you thinks most applies.

A. "You never miss your water, till your well goes dry"

B. Never let the FOX, into the hen house"

I'm proud to say, that management ONLY DREAMED of "Trying some of the stunts" that they're pulling TODAY, as opposed to years ago.
A lot of us are "long in the tooth", and are outta here soon. The younger crowd will have ONLY themself's to praise, OR BLAME, for there working conditions.

NH/BB's

Ps.
"Grandma" had an OLD saying. "A leopard(Management) NEVER CHANGES IT"S SPOTS"

BEWARE, THE LEOPARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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