A330-200

[zethya]

It is difficult to understand how Parker could permit Kirby to undermine the financial growth and investment potential of/in the airline by making a public statement that US would abandon TLV and other long haul destinations if a "Crew Rest" is required. One would think Kirby is sufficiently astute and wise to at least install the hardware to accept and gain access to a potential crew rest module in the cargo area - just in case. They probably feel cargo is a critical component for keeping the TLV route (and other long hauls) viable year round and are hesitant to compromise on pallet space. IMO, canceling/postponing TLV-PHL for "economic" reasons would not likely be accepted as easily as PHL-PEK by either the DOT or the investment community. Parker needs to get involved with this if in fact Kirby's position is more than just strategic "positioning" with the union. A not to be easily dismissed fallout of such a decision could cause passengers to perceive the lack of adequate cabin crew rest facilities as a safety issue and thereby create a competitive advantage for CO/DL.

 

[fudgerunyard]

Good Lord, is there nothing LCC can do right the first time out?

 

[Travelpro72]

In a word....NO!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Good Lord, is there nothing LCC can do right the first time out?

In a word....NO!

Why should they try to break a perfect record?

 

[ClueByFour]

Yeah well if the company loses their crew rest case for the flight attendants you won't have to worry about where that plane is. According to the company it won't be flying TLV. I can't WAIT to hear how this turns out.

What's the gist of the grievance?

 

[Travelpro72]

The union feels that for a flight that long the standard crew rest on the A330 (sleeping sitting up) while pilots get a true flat bed to sleep is not adequate. To me, what's the sense of having a well rested flightdeck crew if you have f/a's not well rested. It's a long ride and just overall total BS.

 

[hp_fa]

After ready some of the thread today I decided to check availability (so that I could see flight times) from PHL - TLV. Then I decided to check fares from PHX against the fares from PHL, which were cheap considering the transcon add-on. Anyway, when I pulled up the itinerary the following was the first suggested routing from PHX.

Who can spot why I am bothering to post this?

8:55 AM 08 Jul Wed Phoenix, AZ
10:32 AM 08 Jul Wed Los Angeles, CA Flight: 2705Mesa Airlines
Class: Coach Canadair Regional Jet
On-Time: 80% Meal: None
Flight Time: 1 h 37 m

11:05 AM 08 Jul Wed Los Angeles, CA
7:27 PM 08 Jul Wed Philadelphia, PA Flight: 796
Class: Coach Airbus A321
On-Time: 70% Meal: In-flight Café
Flight Time: 5 h 22 m

9:15 PM 08 Jul Wed Philadelphia, PA
3:30 PM 09 Jul Thu Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel Flight: 796
Class: Coach Airbus A330-200
On-Time: N/A Meal: Dinner
Flight Time: 11 h 15 m

Yup that's right sports fans, a 33 minute connection in LAX. Now I will grant that there is a change-of-gauge in PHL and an 1:45 to change planes, but either Flt. 796 is going to run late on occasion, folks will mis-connect or luggage will be left behind and the customers will not find out until baggage claim in TLV.

Who can say STUPID!

 

[ClueByFour]

The union feels that for a flight that long the standard crew rest on the A330 (sleeping sitting up) while pilots get a true flat bed to sleep is not adequate. To me, what's the sense of having a well rested flightdeck crew if you have f/a's not well rested. It's a long ride and just overall total BS.

My apologies--what does the F/A contract say?

 

[A320 Driver]

The union feels that for a flight that long the standard crew rest on the A330 (sleeping sitting up) while pilots get a true flat bed to sleep is not adequate. To me, what's the sense of having a well rested flightdeck crew if you have f/a's not well rested. It's a long ride and just overall total BS.

Enough of the "ME TOO" already. Fight your own fight. There is plenty of justification for adequate F/A rest without dragging the pilot group into it.

I'm not sure why the company can't (won't) put a row of fully reclining seats in the back for F/A rest. It would be much lighter than the crew rest module and should satisfy everyone. If our margins are so tight that we can't give up a couple of seats for rest, then why are we doing this anyway?

A320 Driver B)

 

[john john]

Enough of the "ME TOO" already. Fight your own fight. There is plenty of justification for adequate F/A rest without dragging the pilot group into it.

A320 Driver B)

Your fight is everybody’s fight does 93 jets with a seat capacity of 86 with no strings attach being flow by a contract carrier ring a bell

 

[john john]

Yup that's right sports fans, a 33 minute connection in LAX. Now I will grant that there is a change-of-gauge in PHL and an 1:45 to change planes, but either Flt. 796 is going to run late on occasion, folks will mis-connect or luggage will be left behind and the customers will not find out until baggage claim in TLV.

Who can say STUPID!

Noting unusual about this except what you mention pretty much standard operating procedure

 

[Onestep2flt]

I don't think they were trying to bring up anything about any "ME Too". I think the only thing to mention about the pilots is that the only reason they will have crew rest seats is LAW. If it were not for that pesky little detail the pilots would be in the same situation. I think your management should start practicing proper business ethics and responsibility and take care of the employees. Just because it is not law for the flight attendants does not make it right.

I would assume that some flight attendants will be reserve. If I understand this correctly they may have as little as two hours notice before such a trip. If they have normal lives they had to get the kids ready for school at 6:30 am and then did normal household things, maybe a trip to the grocery store. Lets say that the flight is getting a new crew due to whatever. It is now going to leave at 1:00 am. That reserve flight attendant put the kids to bed and is now preparing everything for tomorrow. They now start to go to bed at a decent hour, say 10:00 pm. Not so fast there Mr. or Miss flight attendant, we need you at the airport for a possible 1:00 am departure. Now they have been up since 6:30 am and have to fly twelve hours with zero sleep. Your company seems to think this is all part of being that reserve and you should have thought of that earlier. The "rest" seats should be just that. Somewhere away from the distractions of people going to the bathroom and somewhere they can lay down and rest. I have been told that sometimes people will actually wake a flight attendant to ask for something. Yep, if the margins for that flight are so slim you can't do something right by your employees then you have no business doing the flight at all.

Anyway, as a business person I am all about squeezing every ounce of revenue I can from every source I can find but not at the expense of my best assets, the employees. I found a long time ago that taking care of your employees is one of the best keys to profit.

 

[Travelpro72]

Enough of the "ME TOO" already. Fight your own fight. There is plenty of justification for adequate F/A rest without dragging the pilot group into it.

I'm not sure why the company can't (won't) put a row of fully reclining seats in the back for F/A rest. It would be much lighter than the crew rest module and should satisfy everyone. If our margins are so tight that we can't give up a couple of seats for rest, then why are we doing this anyway?

A320 Driver B)

This is NOT a "ME TOO" situation. Our fight for crew rest has NOTHING...I repeat NOTHING to do with the pilots and their language (law) to have such rest facilities. It DOES have to do with the company doing right by their flight attendants. Stop dragging the pilots into it? I think you guys/gals are busy enough with your own issues...to say the least. 🙄

 

[ussnark]

After ready some of the thread today I decided to check availability (so that I could see flight times) from PHL - TLV. Then I decided to check fares from PHX against the fares from PHL, which were cheap considering the transcon add-on. Anyway, when I pulled up the itinerary the following was the first suggested routing from PHX.

While I agree with you that a 33 minute scheduled turn in LAX would be silly, the company web site comes up with 8:59 PHX departure direct to PHL, with a giant lay-over in PHL on flight 250 for the lowest fare. I think one could leave as late as around noon for a 1+45 lay-over in PHL but it would not be the cheapest fare.

 

[ussnark]

My apologies--what does the F/A contract say?

I don't believe the AFA "contract" addresses such long flights, ergo, no one should fly them until it is addressed. (not certain what the "me-too" applies to). Personally, I would demand rested FAs at the end of such a long flight. and trying to rest in the last rows while a prayer group monopolizes the aft galley would not be my idea of an environment conducive to rest.

UAL pilots used to have a contract with no 777 pay rates. The company wanted to use the 777s on the property. The pilots refused to fly the 777, forcing the company to de-mothball 747s so routes could be serviced.

Seems shortly thereafter, the pilots had 777 pay rates.

Really pretty simple.