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Though at the moment, I CAN'T locate the article/opinion that I read this morning(trust me I'm looking hard),...It was Mentioned AGAIN, that certain Airline Industry "touts" are sticking with a AA/CO combo.

Also,

The CO pilots just Added an additional CHUCK of $ DOUGH $ into their "potential merger/acquisition fund" !


Hmmm !
 
Doubtful.

What these carriers need to do with their excess $$ rather than thinking of ways to swallow each other whole, is to get together and start their own Jet Fuel business. Even if that means buying their own refinery for the stuff as well. They are being held hostage on Jet-A and it is inflated artifically. The article I read, and I'm looking for it too, stated that if the unnecessary greed were removed, the airlines would be paying 2/3rds less for fuel than they are blindly forking over now.

The huge profits are being tacked on right now in fear of the coming democrat controlled white house, congress and senate. With Bush out of the way, those fuel prices should come down but for now, they are gouging for all the $$$ they can get and they are calling it "what the market will bear" pricing. Until then, Bush will continue to turn a blind eye to the problem while his share continues to be pumped into his Haliburton trust, and will be waiting for him in Dubai after the white house is fumigated!
 
Doubtful.

What these carriers need to do with their excess $$ rather than thinking of ways to swallow each other whole, is to get together and start their own Jet Fuel business. Even if that means buying their own refinery for the stuff as well. They are being held hostage on Jet-A and it is inflated artifically. The article I read, and I'm looking for it too, stated that if the unnecessary greed were removed, the airlines would be paying 2/3rds less for fuel than they are blindly forking over now.

The huge profits are being tacked on right now in fear of the coming democrat controlled white house, congress and senate. With Bush out of the way, those fuel prices should come down but for now, they are gouging for all the $$$ they can get and they are calling it "what the market will bear" pricing. Until then, Bush will continue to turn a blind eye to the problem while his share continues to be pumped into his Haliburton trust, and will be waiting for him in Dubai after the white house is fumigated!
<_< ------- If I remember correctly, I believe there once was an Airline that owned it's own refinery. I believe it was "Western Airlines". And when it was acquired by Delta, one of the first things they did was sell it off!------ Too bad! They'd be in a lot better position if they hadn't!--------Hey! something about this sounds familiar!!!! :shock:
 
I think AA should buy EXXON. Its current market cap is only $467 billion. Well worth it, IMO, since it's been throwing off annual profits of nearly 10% of that. And just think, AA would have free gas forever.

Or maybe AA should invade an oil producing nation and confiscate their oil. Perhaps Venezuela would be a good place to start. AA even has nonstop flights there. Arpey could replace Hugo Chavez as dictator. Just like option #1 - free gas forever.

But my all-time favorite is this: Maybe Arpey should invest the AA cash balance in lottery tickets. Buy piles of Powerball and Mega Millions tickets.
 
Things that should have been done ALREADY, by GER....AAAHD(since we will NEVER see normal oil prices again) is;

1. Have an APA contract DONE Yesterday. One that contains NEW Eagle language.
(As much as I hate to say it, the Pilots hold virtually "all the Aces !)

Using lots of "KY", grit your teeth, and make them an offer they could'nt refuse !!

2. (Can't wait around for Bombardier Cjets) Embraer should be pumping out E195's already for A/E, (giving micro-jets back to them, and putting s/80's in Mojave.

3. (Since it's gonna happen anyway)(think ALB/SYR/ROC/BUF/PVD) ,Turn the small stations over to Eagle(Ejets, or below twu staffing formula)...BDL/BWI/LIT/XNA/ are perfect example's.

4. By NOW, we should've had a number of Ground Handling Contracts in JFK(new term.)

As I mentioned in another thread, THESE are the things Crandall would have addressed already IMHO.
 
I keep going back and forth on AA and mergers. On the one hand, sometimes I think that AA HAS to merge with someone with lots of China access. Sometimes I think that maybe CO with its two (plus HKG) would be good enough combined with AA's two, giving it four daily flights to China and one to HKG. And sometimes I think that AA can go it alone, especially if it can win some more China flights in 2010-2012 when a whole boatload of them become available.

The third option usually comes up when it looks like NW-DL and UA-CO are done deals.

Here's my new prediction with $110/bbl oil: AA+NW+CO and UA+DL+US

Two giant legacy airlines that would compete everywhere. And WN, B6, F9, FL and all the rest to help keep those two honest.

The UA+DL+US would probably have to divest enough slots at LGA, DCA and BOS to enable the AA+NW+CO behemoth to operate a true shuttle. And incompatible aircraft types could be traded between the two, much like what was proposed when UA and US were discussing their merger in 2000.

Each would have tons of China, tons of NRT, lots of Europe, lots of S America and very extensive domestic coverage. Despite popular opinion, you don't need lots of competitors to force price competition - I think two is enough. And my economist spouse and all our economist friends agree. But Congress and the DOJ all too often think that two firms would mean the end of price competition.

AA still wouldn't have Australia, but I like Qantas. They kick UA's ass to Australia, and I think they'll do the same to all new entrants now that Oz is open skies.
 
Things that should have been done ALREADY, by GER....AAAHD(since we will NEVER see normal oil prices again) is;

1. Have an APA contract DONE Yesterday. One that contains NEW Eagle language.
(As much as I hate to say it, the Pilots hold virtually "all the Aces !)

Using lots of "KY", grit your teeth, and make them an offer they could'nt refuse !!

2. (Can't wait around for Bombardier Cjets) Embraer should be pumping out E195's already for A/E, (giving micro-jets back to them, and putting s/80's in Mojave.

3. (Since it's gonna happen anyway)(think ALB/SYR/ROC/BUF/PVD) ,Turn the small stations over to Eagle(Ejets, or below twu staffing formula)...BDL/BWI/LIT/XNA/ are perfect example's.

4. By NOW, we should've had a number of Ground Handling Contracts in JFK(new term.)

As I mentioned in another thread, THESE are the things Crandall would have addressed already IMHO.

Please for the love of god, don't give Eagle the E190's/195's. Lord knows the APA would never accept that deal, and they are good for mainline duties (wide enough for first class etc). Also don't give those planes to Eagle unless someone gives the passengers a guarantee that those planes will be kept up to mainline standards because right now the microjets aren't and it shows.
 
I keep going back and forth on AA and mergers. On the one hand, sometimes I think that AA HAS to merge with someone with lots of China access. Sometimes I think that maybe CO with its two (plus HKG) would be good enough combined with AA's two, giving it four daily flights to China and one to HKG. And sometimes I think that AA can go it alone, especially if it can win some more China flights in 2010-2012 when a whole boatload of them become available.

The third option usually comes up when it looks like NW-DL and UA-CO are done deals.

Here's my new prediction with $110/bbl oil: AA+NW+CO and UA+DL+US

Two giant legacy airlines that would compete everywhere. And WN, B6, F9, FL and all the rest to help keep those two honest.

The UA+DL+US would probably have to divest enough slots at LGA, DCA and BOS to enable the AA+NW+CO behemoth to operate a true shuttle. And incompatible aircraft types could be traded between the two, much like what was proposed when UA and US were discussing their merger in 2000.

Each would have tons of China, tons of NRT, lots of Europe, lots of S America and very extensive domestic coverage. Despite popular opinion, you don't need lots of competitors to force price competition - I think two is enough. And my economist spouse and all our economist friends agree. But Congress and the DOJ all too often think that two firms would mean the end of price competition.

AA still wouldn't have Australia, but I like Qantas. They kick UA's ass to Australia, and I think they'll do the same to all new entrants now that Oz is open skies.

A few thoughts on the matter (and regardless of what you think, I'm not a castaway from airliners.net... notice how I've been a member of this forum just as long as you have been).

1) I doubt US regulators would allow for just two jumbo airlines on the scale that you predict. Anyone who controls both DFW and IAH would control all of the international traffic out of Texas as well as most of the internal traffic in the state. Same goes for AA's major operations at JFK and LGA combined with CO's EWR hub; there are just too many antitrust issues for that to get by authorities (especially NY/NJ state regulators).

2) UA/DL isn't going to want to deal with the mess that is USAirways. The only way that someone is going to make a play for that airline would be try to buy the East operation and leave the west to self destruct by its own managerial incompetence (if you think AA's management sucks try Tempe for a couple of days). Furthermore, USEast would bring nothing to the table that UA wouldn't already get from Delta in the merger.
  • Massive southeast hub - Atlanta.
    Major NYC presence- Delta at JFK and LGA and Delta Shuttle
    Massive European Network - Delta
    Extensive Heathrow Access - UA
    Latin network - Delta
    Pacific Network - UA
At best USAir East just duplicates those strengths and does nothing to address the fundamental weaknesses of such a merger (they still have a large whole in the route map in the south and southwest).

3) So what would make sense for American? The most obvious answer from an international standpoint would be Northwest. They have the Pacific routes that everyone but United has spent the past 20 years salivating over. I still don't believe that American isn't going to make a bid for Northwest to try to get it, or at least force Delta to pay more for it.

If American can't get Northwest, then it might just try to buy Air Mike for the slots it currently has in China and south east Asia, basically shutting down Air Mike and getting enough 777's to make those all TransPac flights. It probably could make such a demand contingent upon a sucessful UA/CO merger as part of their divestment for approval. American also has the option to try to build up transpacific service themselves with the 2010-2012 slot awards and could further tighten their codesharing/partnerships with JAL, Cathay, and Qantas to make do until they get those slots.

Domestically, it just depends as to what American wants to do. We have repeatedly heard that AMR isn't interested in expanding mainline capacity (a significant mistake in my opinion as the mainline product is far superior to the Eagle/Connection product not to mention the costs per seat mile are significantly lower).

If they would like to expand on the Eastern seaboard to further solidify their presence and to effectively compete against a UA/DL merger, they might look at USEast. USEast would, on paper, bring a lot to AA's east coast route structure; such as a hub that can compete with ATL with CLT, an actual northeast hub with PHL (sorry the LGA/JFK combo is just a pain in the ass for everyone who isn't O&D to the NYC market which is who the operation is currently set up to serve) as well as the "lucrative" shuttle routes. USEast's customer base of frequent business travelers who buy those high yield tickets could be very appealing and many of them would come back to a AA/USEast combo since the bozos in Tempe wouldn't be running the show anymore.

On the west coast, there is the option of buying Alaska, which has already been discussed hear ad nauseum. There are significant cost structure issues that would need to be worked out (B-scale perhaps?). But the hub in SEA would provide AA with a good base to launch a transpacific expansion from. A more reasonable suggestion would be to tighten the partnership between AA and AS, expanding codesharing, merging FF and AC programs and bringing Alaska into OneWorld.
 
Things that should have been done ALREADY, by GER....AAAHD(since we will NEVER see normal oil prices again) is;

1. Have an APA contract DONE Yesterday. One that contains NEW Eagle language.
(As much as I hate to say it, the Pilots hold virtually "all the Aces !)

Using lots of "KY", grit your teeth, and make them an offer they could'nt refuse !!

2. (Can't wait around for Bombardier Cjets) Embraer should be pumping out E195's already for A/E, (giving micro-jets back to them, and putting s/80's in Mojave.

3. (Since it's gonna happen anyway)(think ALB/SYR/ROC/BUF/PVD) ,Turn the small stations over to Eagle(Ejets, or below twu staffing formula)...BDL/BWI/LIT/XNA/ are perfect example's.

4. By NOW, we should've had a number of Ground Handling Contracts in JFK(new term.)

As I mentioned in another thread, THESE are the things Crandall would have addressed already IMHO.


I got a better idea. Just put AE out of its misery, get 100 seat airplanes at AA and start a replacement program for the Super 80s.
 
I got a better idea. Just put AE out of its misery, get 100 seat airplanes at AA and start a replacement program for the Super 80s.

Amen. Although if you could get the pilots to bend on scope a bit, I sure you could find some Q400's cheap. They are a superb plane which can do about just about everything the RJ's can do with a much much lower CASM because turboprops burn a whole lot less fuel than an equally sized jet.
 
Amen. Although if you could get the pilots to bend on scope a bit, I sure you could find some Q400's cheap. They are a superb plane which can do about just about everything the RJ's can do with a much much lower CASM because turboprops burn a whole lot less fuel than an equally sized jet.

It's hardly even bending.... Q400 capacity is 68-72 pax, and its weight is about 1000lbs below the 64,500# limit in the scope clause. It's almost a one for one swap with the ATR72, with the exception of having four to eight more seats. Take out the seats, and it's compliant with the letter of the agreement.

AA's 39 ATR72's have an average age of 12 years and need replacing. I'd hate to see how many cycles some of these have on them, since they're on relatively short stage lengths in a high salt environment.

If APA wanted to play hardball over a large turboprop, they could. But I just don't see the AA guys being too willing to step back in time and having to remember how to feather a prop...
 
It's hardly even bending.... Q400 capacity is 68-72 pax, and its weight is about 1000lbs below the 64,500# limit in the scope clause. It's almost a one for one swap with the ATR72, with the exception of having four to eight more seats. Take out the seats, and it's compliant with the letter of the agreement.

AA's 39 ATR72's have an average age of 12 years and need replacing. I'd hate to see how many cycles some of these have on them, since they're on relatively short stage lengths in a high salt environment.

If APA wanted to play hardball over a large turboprop, they could. But I just don't see the AA guys being too willing to step back in time and having to remember how to feather a prop...

I don't think the APA cares what kinds of airplanes it flies, but they do care about compensation and quality of life.
 
It's hardly even bending.... Q400 capacity is 68-72 pax, and its weight is about 1000lbs below the 64,500# limit in the scope clause. It's almost a one for one swap with the ATR72, with the exception of having four to eight more seats. Take out the seats, and it's compliant with the letter of the agreement.

AA's 39 ATR72's have an average age of 12 years and need replacing. I'd hate to see how many cycles some of these have on them, since they're on relatively short stage lengths in a high salt environment.

If APA wanted to play hardball over a large turboprop, they could. But I just don't see the AA guys being too willing to step back in time and having to remember how to feather a prop...

Excellent points. I didn't know that AEagle was still flying the ATR72's. I was looking at them as a good replacement for the shorter stage ERJ and CRJ flights. They offer more seats, a comfortable ride and a significant fuel savings compared to the jets. I don't know why more airlines aren't ordering them. Perhaps its the bias against props these days.
 
Doubtful.

What these carriers need to do with their excess $$ rather than thinking of ways to swallow each other whole, is to get together and start their own Jet Fuel business. Even if that means buying their own refinery for the stuff as well. They are being held hostage on Jet-A and it is inflated artifically. The article I read, and I'm looking for it too, stated that if the unnecessary greed were removed, the airlines would be paying 2/3rds less for fuel than they are blindly forking over now.

The huge profits are being tacked on right now in fear of the coming democrat controlled white house, congress and senate. With Bush out of the way, those fuel prices should come down but for now, they are gouging for all the $$$ they can get and they are calling it "what the market will bear" pricing. Until then, Bush will continue to turn a blind eye to the problem while his share continues to be pumped into his Haliburton trust, and will be waiting for him in Dubai after the white house is fumigated!
The owner of Allegiant Airlines owns his own oil well (off shore I believe) and a refinery.
 

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