AA Management

[Buck]

"I work as a aircraft overhaul mechanic in Tulsa.We are way too top heavy with managment.Examples are 2 supervisors on 1 aircraft on 1 shift and 1 manager per Dock position.We have supervisors supervising the supervisors and managers managing the managers.This is going to have to be corrected or Don Carty had better forget the idea of wage concessions.He needs to clean up his own house first before asking labor for wage and benefit concessions.Wage concessions without fixing the excess management problem will leave an attitude with the work force that is not desireable for successful companies to have."

Why are you already gearing up for concessions. The work force under the AATWU Labor agreemnet has been giving major concessions since the B-scale debacle of 1983. Every contract since then has renewed this classification. Allowing for lower wages on a massive scale. The Junior Mechanic program that virtually halted the normal pay progression for the AMT. Then throw in the SRPOSM classification, plus the maintenance bases are already contractually "donating" 5 days off at Christmas to save the company money. Yes management must be cut, however we should remember that the AMT has already been subject to a massive cost reduction program. If you want to talk of concessions, let us also apply wage system that is based on the Market Rate theory that Bob Crandall spoke of.


"Being management heavy is the company's shield against a union labor strike. Management doesn't strike and when the day comes that labor does, there will be plenty of management milling around to fill the 5 minute void, enough to ride out pretty much any strike."

Then this is just mismanagement of the airline. This industrial union attitude of strength in numbers and the threat of a strike is pure BS. Management milling around for a stike threat that is not going to happen.

AATWU agreement:
ARTICLE 33 – NO STRIKE – NO LOCKOUT
(a) It is the intent of the parties to this Agreement that the procedures set forth in this
Agreement will serve as a means of amicable settlement of all disputes that may arise between them,
and, therefore:
(1) The Company will neither cause nor permit a lockout during the life of this
Agreement; and
(2) Neither the Union nor the employees will engage in a strike, sitdown, walkout,
stoppage, slowdown, or curtailment of work for any reason during the life of this Agreement.


I can see now where this portion of the thread is going. The politcal slamming will soon follow. The political history of Presidential Intervention in a strike situation has had no real bearing for the issues of the present situation. I would rather discuss the present situation the company is in and it's industry.

 

[Buck]

"I work as a aircraft overhaul mechanic in Tulsa.We are way too top heavy with managment.Examples are 2 supervisors on 1 aircraft on 1 shift and 1 manager per Dock position.We have supervisors supervising the supervisors and managers managing the managers.This is going to have to be corrected or Don Carty had better forget the idea of wage concessions.He needs to clean up his own house first before asking labor for wage and benefit concessions.Wage concessions without fixing the excess management problem will leave an attitude with the work force that is not desireable for successful companies to have."

Why are you already gearing up for concessions. The work force under the AATWU Labor agreemnet has been giving major concessions since the B-scale debacle of 1983. Every contract since then has renewed this classification. Allowing for lower wages on a massive scale. The Junior Mechanic program that virtually halted the normal pay progression for the AMT. Then throw in the SRPOSM classification, plus the maintenance bases are already contractually "donating" 5 days off at Christmas to save the company money. Yes management must be cut, however we should remember that the AMT has already been subject to a massive cost reduction program. If you want to talk of concessions, let us also apply wage system that is based on the Market Rate theory that Bob Crandall spoke of.


"Being management heavy is the company's shield against a union labor strike. Management doesn't strike and when the day comes that labor does, there will be plenty of management milling around to fill the 5 minute void, enough to ride out pretty much any strike."

Then this is just mismanagement of the airline. This industrial union attitude of strength in numbers and the threat of a strike is pure BS. Management milling around for a stike threat that is not going to happen.

AATWU agreement:
ARTICLE 33 – NO STRIKE – NO LOCKOUT
(a) It is the intent of the parties to this Agreement that the procedures set forth in this
Agreement will serve as a means of amicable settlement of all disputes that may arise between them,
and, therefore:
(1) The Company will neither cause nor permit a lockout during the life of this
Agreement; and
(2) Neither the Union nor the employees will engage in a strike, sitdown, walkout,
stoppage, slowdown, or curtailment of work for any reason during the life of this Agreement.


I can see now where this portion of the thread is going. The politcal slamming will soon follow. The political history of Presidential Intervention in a strike situation has had no real bearing for the issues of the present situation. I would rather discuss the present situation the company is in and it's industry.

 

[AAquila]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 743 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Being management heavy is the company's shield against a union labor strike. Management doesn't strike and when the day comes that labor does, there will be plenty of management milling around to fill the 5 minute void, enough to ride out pretty much any strike.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I beg to differ, but management is there to prevent any strikes in the first place. In 2001, the IAM represented employees staged a simultaneous "systemwide shutdown " lasting about two hours at TWA. At JFK , during those hours, only one flight left the gate. Even the most minimal tasks such as the cleaning of aircraft and the loading and unloading of bags were accomplished without first having two supervisors getting hurt and seeking medical attention.

 

[AAquila]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 743 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Being management heavy is the company's shield against a union labor strike. Management doesn't strike and when the day comes that labor does, there will be plenty of management milling around to fill the 5 minute void, enough to ride out pretty much any strike.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I beg to differ, but management is there to prevent any strikes in the first place. In 2001, the IAM represented employees staged a simultaneous "systemwide shutdown " lasting about two hours at TWA. At JFK , during those hours, only one flight left the gate. Even the most minimal tasks such as the cleaning of aircraft and the loading and unloading of bags were accomplished without first having two supervisors getting hurt and seeking medical attention.

 

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 501 PM HI-LOCK wrote:

I work as a aircraft overhaul mechanic in Tulsa.We are way too top heavy with managment.Examples are 2 supervisors on 1 aircraft on 1 shift and 1 manager per Dock position.We have supervisors supervising the supervisors and managers managing the managers.This is going to have to be corrected or Don Carty had better forget the idea of wage concessions.He needs to clean up his own house first before asking labor for wage and benefit concessions.Wage concessions without fixing the excess management problem will leave an attitude with the work force that is not desireable for successful companies to have.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Also our supervisors are basically glorified babysitters. Their main funtion is taking care of time and attendance, and granting vacation days. The vast majority are worthless when you have a technical question as they have very little experience. Why we have so many I have no idea!

 

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 501 PM HI-LOCK wrote:

I work as a aircraft overhaul mechanic in Tulsa.We are way too top heavy with managment.Examples are 2 supervisors on 1 aircraft on 1 shift and 1 manager per Dock position.We have supervisors supervising the supervisors and managers managing the managers.This is going to have to be corrected or Don Carty had better forget the idea of wage concessions.He needs to clean up his own house first before asking labor for wage and benefit concessions.Wage concessions without fixing the excess management problem will leave an attitude with the work force that is not desireable for successful companies to have.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Also our supervisors are basically glorified babysitters. Their main funtion is taking care of time and attendance, and granting vacation days. The vast majority are worthless when you have a technical question as they have very little experience. Why we have so many I have no idea!

 

[Connected1]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 743 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Being management heavy is the company's shield against a union labor strike. Management doesn't strike and when the day comes that labor does, there will be plenty of management milling around to fill the 5 minute void, enough to ride out pretty much any strike.
----------------
[/blockquote]
You can't honestly believe that management staffing levels are determined by estimating scab needs. Management employees, like you, have a real job to do on a daily basis. Their staffing, like yours, is determined based upon expected improvements in productivity. Your productivity is based upon PBs, seats, RPMs, ASMs, flown revenue, res calls, flown hours, etc. Management productivity is based upon span of control (number of direct reports).

When you come on a message board like this and spread half-truths and untruths, all you are doing is creating an enemy for yourself that is no more real than the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and (sorry to break it to you) Santa Claus. I'm sure that it's a lot of fun to poke fun at this fictitious beast, but you're wasting your time as well as that of everyone else. Moreover, you are just fanning the flames and causing what will be an uncomfortable situation even more difficult.

And as for the original post...

M&E has been largely immune from the trials and tribulations of the rest of the company so far. It is much too early to hear bellyaching from that area of our business. The thought that M&E is being singled out for some sort of punishment is misplaced.

Management and TWU will both be reduced in M&E in due time as fleets reduce/disappear. Although they will be as disappointed as everyone else, management's attitude will not change. There is no need to get upset when your company is trying to respond rapidly to industry trends.

 

[Connected1]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 743 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Being management heavy is the company's shield against a union labor strike. Management doesn't strike and when the day comes that labor does, there will be plenty of management milling around to fill the 5 minute void, enough to ride out pretty much any strike.
----------------
[/blockquote]
You can't honestly believe that management staffing levels are determined by estimating scab needs. Management employees, like you, have a real job to do on a daily basis. Their staffing, like yours, is determined based upon expected improvements in productivity. Your productivity is based upon PBs, seats, RPMs, ASMs, flown revenue, res calls, flown hours, etc. Management productivity is based upon span of control (number of direct reports).

When you come on a message board like this and spread half-truths and untruths, all you are doing is creating an enemy for yourself that is no more real than the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and (sorry to break it to you) Santa Claus. I'm sure that it's a lot of fun to poke fun at this fictitious beast, but you're wasting your time as well as that of everyone else. Moreover, you are just fanning the flames and causing what will be an uncomfortable situation even more difficult.

And as for the original post...

M&E has been largely immune from the trials and tribulations of the rest of the company so far. It is much too early to hear bellyaching from that area of our business. The thought that M&E is being singled out for some sort of punishment is misplaced.

Management and TWU will both be reduced in M&E in due time as fleets reduce/disappear. Although they will be as disappointed as everyone else, management's attitude will not change. There is no need to get upset when your company is trying to respond rapidly to industry trends.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Good gawd! Did I hear two [EM]Diva-Snaps-Up [/EM]when you posted that?[BR][BR]Any of the middle/lower management people at AA that I'm familiar with are some of the laziest do-nothings I've ever come across.[BR][BR]Or is the fact that a 22% cut in management not because they aren't really needed, but because they are hard working worthwhile fixtures in the company work force that are being dumped for spite?[BR][BR]I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours. Your accusations of spreading half-truths and untruths are a crock! I guess I can identify you as one of the many management dead weights who's job is on the chopping block and if such is the case, this is not the place to try to convince your employer that you and your job are needed. [BR][BR]Have fun standing in he UCB line!

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Good gawd! Did I hear two [EM]Diva-Snaps-Up [/EM]when you posted that?[BR][BR]Any of the middle/lower management people at AA that I'm familiar with are some of the laziest do-nothings I've ever come across.[BR][BR]Or is the fact that a 22% cut in management not because they aren't really needed, but because they are hard working worthwhile fixtures in the company work force that are being dumped for spite?[BR][BR]I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours. Your accusations of spreading half-truths and untruths are a crock! I guess I can identify you as one of the many management dead weights who's job is on the chopping block and if such is the case, this is not the place to try to convince your employer that you and your job are needed. [BR][BR]Have fun standing in he UCB line!

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

You're entitled to your perceptions, WNP.

I don't consider my wife to be a lazy, do-nothing, or dead-weight.

She's one of the 22% being cut from management, after 13 years of service.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

You're entitled to your perceptions, WNP.

I don't consider my wife to be a lazy, do-nothing, or dead-weight.

She's one of the 22% being cut from management, after 13 years of service.

 

[Rational Thought]

Sorry to hear that Eric. Best of luck for you and your family.

 

[Rational Thought]

Sorry to hear that Eric. Best of luck for you and your family.

 

[riptide44]

TWA had a Productivity Task Force, which accomplished much saving to TWA. The notes and implementation of ideas truly were worth their weight in gold......these ideas kept TW alive. SOme of these ideas have been given to AA. I can only hope that they can implement them at minimal cost.
As much as TW may be bashed for past bankrupcies, etc. thru the yrs., we kept our company alive and running.SOme of these ideas from the PTF were instrumental in cost savings.
I can only hope that AA mgt will take some of TW knowledge in survival.
Im not saying TW history has all the answers, but we have lived thru some difficult times. We only hope to share knowledge of our experience.
TWO key words: Experience and KNowledge.....
can be had for free.
I can only hope that someone within AA mgt. is listening.