AA may no longer be the "lagest" carrier anymore
- Thread starter donttouchthebeauty
- Start date
Two Great Airlines...One Great Future: Commercial
I love that commercial.At STL before you go into the bagroom we still have that 2 great airlines one great future.I would be banned from this site if you could see the graffity on that one.Hilarious. 
Maybe those who wrote the grafitti should just quit and inform AA that they will not need those pensions, retiree medical, or passes. If it wasn't for AA, they would all have been on the street 7 years ago with nothing. Maybe STL should go all eagle. The TWAer's mentality is no different than that of the illegal immigrants. The illegals illegally enter a country they hate, claim ownership and demand right of citizenship, suck down tens of billion of dollars a year in benefits, burn or stomp on the American flag (how is that for gratitude),and in some cases, assault, murder, and steal from American citizens (then return to their country which protects them) all the while waving the flag of their country of origin, which they love, even though it is corrupt, gives them nothing, and treats them like sh*t. The TWAers come into an airline they hate, attempted to claim full seniority over "nAAtive citizens" with their "foreign seniority", receive tens of millions of dollars in wages and benefits, trash AA, it's unions, and employees, and go on and on about how good TWA was even though they made far less.
Whoa aafsc easy on the coffee!TRy sanka there Nostradamus.
What comes around goes around.
T
The Goose
Guest
Very true, Crandall was a finance guy, but he also understood business a helluva lot better than the clowns running the show now and how to get what he wanted from his people, at least in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong but that's my belief.
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Imagine what CRANDALL could have done for UAL, if he were running their show ?(Or Bethune or Kelliher either)
If this M+A does go down, it makes for a SAD legacy for a Stand alone Powerhouse like UAL !
To Never realize ones Full Potential, is truly unfortunate !!
If this M+A does go down, it makes for a SAD legacy for a Stand alone Powerhouse like UAL !
To Never realize ones Full Potential, is truly unfortunate !!
TWskyliner
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Interesting youtube comments regarding that commercial...
I guess hindsight is always 20/20. When the F/A's were striking I don't believe they thought Crandall knew how to treat his people. The other issue is that the business has changed dramatically from when he ran the show. Would he be as successful today as he was when he took over...I don't believe so. By the time Crandall left many employees were happy to see him go. I remember a story about Carty when he first took over. It talked about the approach he took to negotiating with the pilots. He walked in wearing casual clothes and a sweater and brought only a toothbrush. Why the toothbrush...to show he was there for the long-haul to get a deal done. When they signed the agreement, the pilots talked about how refreshing his approach was and how it had been so adversarial in the past...blah, blah, blah. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I mentioned the idea of AA going for US because, like the HP/US merger, it combines entities that have such different structures that there is likely to be less of an issue of a hub being closed and employees trying to relocate to a hub of the other guy. LAS would probably close but a lot of that could likely be absorbed by other stations as it is relatively small. With UA/DL, I see a world of integration issues when they close at least two of the hubs with no real reason to grow the others proportionatly. If they close three (SLC/CVG/IAD), I see an employee nightmare awaiting the CEO of the combined entity. Mergers in this business only seem to work when there is little to no overlap (probably the reason DL-Wester work).
I mentioned the idea of AA going for US because, like the HP/US merger, it combines entities that have such different structures that there is likely to be less of an issue of a hub being closed and employees trying to relocate to a hub of the other guy. LAS would probably close but a lot of that could likely be absorbed by other stations as it is relatively small. With UA/DL, I see a world of integration issues when they close at least two of the hubs with no real reason to grow the others proportionatly. If they close three (SLC/CVG/IAD), I see an employee nightmare awaiting the CEO of the combined entity. Mergers in this business only seem to work when there is little to no overlap (probably the reason DL-Wester work).
I wonder if, rather than looking domestically, we would save our money and wait do a deal with BA that was proposed in the late 90's. IIRC, it was going to be a near merger. Each carrier taking a large stake in the other one. I know we don't even have ATI yet, but with open skies coming and IF UA/DL merged, I think there would be a good chance.
Who knows, if they designed the deal right, it could look very similar to AF/KLM.
Who knows, if they designed the deal right, it could look very similar to AF/KLM.
North by Northwest
Veteran
If that were the case...where did all that "high revenue producing hubs formula" get you when you were one of the first to file BK, and stayed the longest?
p.s. Those "Airbii's, all 32 A330's are brand spanking new (preferred over 18 year old, rundown 767s). And you left out the 68 787 Dreamliners. The last important note you should look at is the balance sheet of a combined Dal/Ual vs. NW/AA. end of story. I am beginning to see a deficiency in mathematical skills here. NW/AA value would dwraf Dal/Ual. You are talking a combined market value of AA/NW at almost $21 billion (as of today) vs. Dal/Ual of $10 1/2 billion...surely that lays bare your "high revenue hub" dream.
I would suggest you stay away from bragging about the age of an airplane when your margins/debt load (because of a few middle aged planes) may send you back to the "BIG house" (with out a merger) with oil at $95.
Don't hate the 9s because they are old and don't have a lease payment...hate them cause you don't own an old fleet that still makes oodles of cash for you.
FYI, HKG and NRT is NOT a Hub for you. And you will NEVER come anywhere near the number of slots NW controls in Tokyo. (brace yourself, cause in '09, you are going to see a FLOOD of new non-stops (and even more 5th freedom from NRT) from the U.S. to Asia from NW Dreamliners). The 9s paid for the Dreamliners.
T
The Goose
Guest
Talking amongst ourselves, my coworkers and I guessed a DL/NWA alignment was the original intent of them filing bankruptcy at almost the same time, aside from the last chance to get in under the wire before less corporate-friendly bk laws took effect, but it's now starting to look otherwise, no doubt after the fact.
An AA/NWA combination would be rather interesting to say the least, having a great hold on asian routes and others - in this scenario, AA wouldn't be the regulatory enabler as some have opined before, but the seller of routes to kosher up the combination to the regulating agencies. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but a DL/UAL combo would be rather formidable also, but in different areas. These two combos would probably make enough cash they could afford to pay the execs a bonus from their own funds, and not take it from the shareholders as Arpey and the frat boys did last April.
AA's got that 6 billion (+/-) in cash laying around, no doubt for an opportunity such as this - Arpey damned certainly won't let the employees have any and I doubt AA will start the merger ball rolling but will probably jump in with both feet once the first shot is fired.
I may well be working for less after the 2003 concessions, but entertainment such as all this speculation is occasionally provided; I'd still rather have the money and benefits, though.
BoeingBoy
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touché
I think you're mixing and matching your numbers. The combined enterprise values of AA plus NW is indeed $21 billion or so. But your $10.5 billion figure for DL + UA is not the enterprise values but is instead the combined market caps. If you keep things apples to apples, then the combined enterprise values of DL + UA is the same $21 billion as for AA + NW. B)
Combined market caps of both pair are about the same at $10.5 billion or so.
North by Northwest
Veteran
touché
I think you're mixing and matching your numbers. The combined enterprise values of AA plus NW is indeed $21 billion or so. But your $10.5 billion figure for DL + UA is not the enterprise values but is instead the combined market caps. If you keep things apples to apples, then the combined enterprise values of DL + UA is the same $21 billion as for AA + NW. B)
Combined market caps of both pair are about the same at $10.5 billion or so.
NWA
VALUATION MEASURES
Market Cap (intraday)5: 4.50B
Enterprise Value (16-Nov-07)3: 8.38B
AMR
VALUATION MEASURES
Market Cap (intraday)5: 5.56B
Enterprise Value (16-Nov-07)3: 12.37B
.......................
Ual
VALUATION MEASURES
Market Cap (intraday)5: 4.91B
Enterprise Value (16-Nov-07)3: 10.71B
Dal
VALUATION MEASURES
Market Cap (intraday)5: 5.38B
Enterprise Value (16-Nov-07)3: 11.58B
Ok..I was off a few Bil. :blink:
