AA Mechanic Wages

HI-LOCK

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Aug 30, 2002
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The relevant point of CAL mechanics contract to AA is that AA is asking for wage concessions and CAL gives a 23% wage increase in today''s airline market.
 

kirkpatrick

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Aug 20, 2002
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Long Island, NY
What really matters here is what is CAL making now vs AA and what will they be making after this 23%? If they're trailing badly then raises might not be out of line, even in today's environment.

MK
 

410OhOne

Advanced
Dec 30, 2002
143
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Very good point Bob. Maintenance labor costs have got to be lower not only due to a reduction in overtime, but no lunches, penalty hours and the such have all been eliminated. Not to mention how many of our future are still on the street.
 

Bob Owens

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Sep 9, 2002
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One thing that would be interesting to see is how much the total cost for labor in maintenance has changed since we received our wage adjustments last year. I would say that with the severe reduction in overtime most mechanics are making the same, or possibly less than last year, or 2000. Another reason why concessions are out of the question.
 
Provisions for penalty hours, overtime, and paid lunches are in the contract was to ensure that workers are not taken advantage of.

How ironic that honoring provisions which were put into the contract to protect the quality of the workplace are now being labeled as "pay cuts"....
 

Bob Owens

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eoleson;
The unfortunate fact is that due to twenty years of concessionary agreements many workers were more than eager to be misused and taken advantage of so they could pay their bills. I like making it in 40 and going home. 40 hours should be enough.If we agree to concessions inflation will force us to prostitute ourselves once again. The company is enjoying higher productivity, it best performance ever and its labor costs for maintenance are probably less. They should not be too greedy or they could lose what they have gained. Sometimes its a better bargain to pay a fair price than to go as cheap as possible.
 

Buck

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[blockquote]
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On 12/30/2002 4:00:40 PM Bob Owens wrote:

eoleson;
The unfortunate fact is that due to twenty years of concessionary agreements many workers were more than eager to be misused and taken advantage of so they could pay their bills. I like making it in 40 and going home. 40 hours should be enough.If we agree to concessions inflation will force us to prostitute ourselves once again. The company is enjoying higher productivity, it best performance ever and its labor costs for maintenance are probably less. They should not be too greedy or they could lose what they have gained. Sometimes its a better bargain to pay a fair price than to go as cheap as possible.
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[/blockquote]
Who has had twenty years of concessionary agreements and why?
 

Bob Owens

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Sep 9, 2002
14,274
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[blockquote]
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On 12/30/2002 6:27:46 PM Buck wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 12/30/2002 4:00:40 PM Bob Owens wrote:

eoleson;
The unfortunate fact is that due to twenty years of concessionary agreements many workers were more than eager to be misused and taken advantage of so they could pay their bills. I like making it in 40 and going home. 40 hours should be enough.If we agree to concessions inflation will force us to prostitute ourselves once again. The company is enjoying higher productivity, it best performance ever and its labor costs for maintenance are probably less. They should not be too greedy or they could lose what they have gained. Sometimes its a better bargain to pay a fair price than to go as cheap as possible.
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[/blockquote]
Who has had twenty years of concessionary agreements and why?
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[/blockquote]

Because them Good Old Boys in Tulsa dont know how to say "NO".
 

Buck

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Contributor
Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 12/31/2002 2:57:32 PM Bob Owens wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 12/30/2002 6:27:46 PM Buck wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 12/30/2002 4:00:40 PM Bob Owens wrote:

eoleson;
The unfortunate fact is that due to twenty years of concessionary agreements many workers were more than eager to be misused and taken advantage of so they could pay their bills. I like making it in 40 and going home. 40 hours should be enough.If we agree to concessions inflation will force us to prostitute ourselves once again. The company is enjoying higher productivity, it best performance ever and its labor costs for maintenance are probably less. They should not be too greedy or they could lose what they have gained. Sometimes its a better bargain to pay a fair price than to go as cheap as possible.
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[/blockquote]
Who has had twenty years of concessionary agreements and why?
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[/blockquote]

Because them Good Old Boys in Tulsa dont know how to say "NO".
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[/blockquote]
Them good old boys are supporters of the TWU. You know this to be the truth. You know that no matter what you or the line stations attempt, the Local 514 can defeat any inititive by a roll call vote. Is this true, Bob? The structure of industrial unionism that you support passed the contract. How did JFK vote, Bob? Again I ask you the question. Do you support industrial unionism or craft unionism? To put it another way, Do you support those represented by the TWU at AA as a whole group or do you as a mechanic support the mechanics?
 

RV4

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 12/31/2002 2:57:32 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Because them Good Old Boys in Tulsa dont know how to say "NO".
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[/blockquote]

A simple fact:

The 1995 Six year destroy the profession contract was passed by a majority of the mechanics in the New York local.

No matter how many times you repeat something different that fact will always remain the same.

That vote was counted, recorded, and will always be.

Another interesting note. On Jan 6th Tulsa is receiving a Cleaner Crew Chief from LGA that is being reduced to building cleaner and relocated to Tulsa. Maybe Bob is finally sending in one his finest to fix Tulsa. Why dont you assist your own from taking paycuts and having their lives disrupted instead of spending so much of your time trying to influence other airline employees how to vote on their futures?
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
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[blockquote]
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On 12/31/2002 5:01:33 PM Buck wrote:


Because them Good Old Boys in Tulsa dont know how to say "NO".
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[/blockquote]
Them good old boys are supporters of the TWU. You know this to be the truth. You know that no matter what you or the line stations attempt, the Local 514 can defeat any inititive by a roll call vote. Is this true, Bob? The structure of industrial unionism that you support passed the contract. How did JFK vote, Bob? Again I ask you the question. Do you support industrial unionism or craft unionism? To put it another way, Do you support those represented by the TWU at AA as a whole group or do you as a mechanic support the mechanics?
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[/blockquote]

Funny but wasnt the leadership of the AMFA drive in Tulsa encouraging a YES vote even prior to 9-11? How did you vote?

The twin towers were clearly visable from JFK, LGA and EWR. For our members 9-11 was a very disturbing event. It was not just something off the TV screen. It was much more personal. There is no doubt in my mind that prior to 9-11 the vote would have been quite different. Most of the people that I work with knew someone who died, some lost relatives. All of us witnessed the daily funeral processions for the victims that went on for months.With all that was going on, an informational campain encouraging a "NO" vote seemed inappropriate. Be that as it may our Local still had the highest percentage of "NO" votes out of all the locals.
 

RV4

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[blockquote]
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On 12/31/2002 7:48:55 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Well the numbers that I saw indicated that the vote out of NY was against the 1995 agreement despite the fact that many ballots were discarded because of the abusive comments that many of the NO voters added to their ballots. Still I dont feel that the 95 agreement was a turning point but rather a continuation of a decline that started in 1983 with the introduction of B-scale and other concessions.

The person to whom you are referring to is a member of Local 501, not 562.

Are you done howling at the moon in bold print already?

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[/blockquote]

Where did you see these numbers Bob? Can you provide documentation proving your claim about the 1995 vote in New York for all to read. Are you sure their votes were not counted because of "hanging chad"?

I was not around during the 1983 vote so I have no clue how New York voted. For such a claimed good union man, you sure seem to have seperatist views regarding your union brothers. Do you really defend and care about only those New Yorkers and AA'ers that are in your local. You claim on the UAL board to really be concerned about those folks, are they in your local now too?

Howl at moon? Is this another one those frontal lobe created conspiracies from beneath your bed?
 

RV4

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Aug 20, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
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On 12/31/2002 7:34:01 PM Bob Owens wrote:

The twin towers were clearly visable from JFK, LGA and EWR. For our members 9-11 was a very disturbing event. It was not just something off the TV screen. It was much more personal. There is no doubt in my mind that prior to 9-11 the vote would have been quite different. Most of the people that I work with knew someone who died, some lost relatives. All of us witnessed the daily funeral processions for the victims that went on for months.With all that was going on, an informational campain encouraging a "NO" vote seemed inappropriate. Be that as it may our Local still had the highest percentage of "NO" votes out of all the locals.
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[/blockquote]

What is your excuse for the 1995 vote Bob?

And I doubt that with todays technology and media that we were any less impacted or aware of the 9-11 tradgedy than you or your co-workers. You act as if those in Tulsa are not entitled to same 9-11 humbling feelings and vote yes because of our location. Never forget it was American Airlines' aircraft used as a weapon not a New Yorker aircraft.

Also given your disrespect for Jews on other threads, there is no doubt in my mind that any personal claims you have regarding human sympathy are very much in question.
 

Bob Owens

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Sep 9, 2002
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RV4;

"Where did you see these numbers Bob? Can you provide documentation proving your claim about the 1995 vote in New York for all to read. Are you sure their votes were not counted because of "hanging chad"? "

You brought it up, you provide the documentation.

"You claim on the UAL board to really be concerned about those folks, are they in your local now too?"

I claim? Back it up. More of your unfounded acusations.

"Howl at moon? Is this another one those frontal lobe created conspiracies from beneath your bed?"

What do you mean Dave, or is it AMFA Dave or RV4 or,,,,?
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
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[blockquote]
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On 12/31/2002 7:48:21 PM RV4 wrote:

And I doubt that with todays technology and media that we were any less impacted or aware of the 9-11 tradgedy than you or your co-workers. You act as if those in Tulsa are not entitled to same 9-11 humbling feelings and vote yes because of our location. Never forget it was American Airlines' aircraft used as a weapon not a New Yorker aircraft.

Also given your disrespect for Jews on other threads, there is no doubt in my mind that any persoanl claims you have regarding human sympathy are very much in question.
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[/blockquote]

Well I would challenge that assumption. While I have no doubt that many in Tulsa were shocked, saddened and perhaps angered at what they witnessed on TV its not quite the same as seeing it in front of you. Not quite the same when your family, freinds and neighbors are directly involved.

Disrespect for Jews? Prove it. I respect all of Gods children, regardless of religion, age, race, gender, ethnicity or sexual preference, or at least I make a conscious effort. Do you? Showing disrespect for Jews would come as quite a suprise to my neighbors since I live in a predominantly Jewish area. My future sister in law is Jewish. When is the last time you broke bread with a Jew, other than Jesus of course?