AA overreached

[FWAAA]

I told everyone in several threads that Judge Sean Lane would not impose the Term Sheets.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You TWU Yes voters should hold your heads in SHAME for what you've done to our profession by approving the POS LBO 2.0 .
TULE drank the Sam Cirri Kool-Aid and now we are s-----d!

The Judge told AA he would impose the term sheets as long as AA modifies the two areas mentioned above: furlough and unlimited domestic codesharing. Here's AA's response:

“The judge supported American’s business plan throughout his ruling and agreed with the company’s position that changes to the collective bargaining agreement were necessary,” American spokesman said Bruce Hicks said today. “He ultimately concluded that only two narrowly defined elements of the company’s proposal were too aggressive.” American plans to adjust those elements, resubmit the term sheet to the APA and by Friday renew its request to abrogate its existing pilots’ labor contract, Hicks said. “We will ask Judge Lane to consider our request expeditiously,” he added.

 

[CMH_GSE]

After reading the Judge's ruling, I would temper the celebration.

AA only has to tweak two items, and the Judge will grant AA's request.

 

[riceweevil]

I'm very proud of the Allied Pilots and their guts to take on the AA management.

The APA has won a major battle but still fighting the war.
Full Throttle Ahead!!!

 

[paul1]

thank you tulsa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wtf are ME TOO is going to mean nothing. Even if AA changes the code sharing and layoffs like fwaa says how long is it going to take?

 

[Bob Owens]

After reading the Judge's ruling, I would temper the celebration.

AA only has to tweak two items, and the Judge will grant AA's request.

Sure, but those were not the only things the pilots had that was industry leading, they are not at the bottom as far as Pay, Holidays, Vacation, sick time etc etc. What AA was demanding from M&R, and got, was unprecidented. We had a much better case than the pilots against abrogation because the only things that we had, the Pension and retiree medical, we were willing to bargain, but the International and their "Experts" said that abrogation was all but guaranteed. The company was not demanding that the pilots settle for bottom of the industry in nearly every category like they were with us.

 

[FWAAA]

AA says that it will give the revised term sheet to APA on Thursday and file the revised 1113 motion on Friday.

It's akin to finding a couple of items that need repaired while going over a punch list during a pre-delivery inspection.

 

[toroshark]

How many items would the judge have balked at in our term sheet? We will never know. Thanks Jimmy, Phat Don, and all the Tulsa sheep that voted "yes".

 

[riceweevil]

The judge made clear in the decision that he would approve abrogation if the codesharing and furlough changes were modified and ruled that his rejection was without prejudice (meaning that AA can file a modified 1113 petition correcting those areas) and he'll sign it. AA met the standards for abrogation exept as to the furlough and codesharing changes.

Another example of AA management Spin when the judge handed their A__ S to them on a platter.

 

[Jacobin777]

I felt unlimited codesharing was stretching a bit as well. I expect AA to revise it but not completely remove it.

Not sure about how AA will deal with the furlough issue however. Maybe they will temper that or offer some kind of retirement package.

At the end of the day, the Judge DID practically give everything management wanted.

Also, this will give Parker a harder time to prove he has a viable plan.

 

[bluebird]

Pilots had the Nads!

Hopefully our FAs are changing their APFA recommend “yes” vote to "no" as we speak.

 

[strikeforce]

AA says that it will give the revised term sheet to APA on Thursday and file the revised 1113 motion on Friday.

It's akin to finding a couple of items that need repaired while going over a punch list during a pre-delivery inspection.

I don't think it's going to be that easy...wasn't code-sharing a major part of their business plan. In essence, AA has to revise it's business plan and give the APA some sort of furlough protection......those two items may throw AA for a loop....sort of like trying to find and repair a hydraulic leak up in the tail section of a 727 at departure time, and without a lift available to do it. I don't think it's going to be so easy......just my thought.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

TULE IDIOTS!

 

[Mach85ER]

Sure, but those were not the only things the pilots had that was industry leading, they are not at the bottom as far as Pay, Holidays, Vacation, sick time etc etc. What AA was demanding from M&R, and got, was unprecidented. We had a much better case than the pilots against abrogation because the only things that we had, the Pension and retiree medical, we were willing to bargain, but the International and their "Experts" said that abrogation was all but guaranteed. The company was not demanding that the pilots settle for bottom of the industry in nearly every category like they were with us.

Bob,

Major disagree. Pay is lower than DAL/SWA and now UAL. Some areas may have been closer and paid more than LCC, but those are low for other others. For the job of a network legacy, APA pilots will shortly be paid the least.
Holidays? WT# are those? WE DON'T GET A SINGLE ONE. In fact we do even the most ridiculous training on every day of the year without a dime extra including Xmas day.
Vacation? Paid less and with less accrual than most other carriers. In fact, AA's vacation can be described as worst in the industry, especially anyone with less than 21 years. only those few with 30 years have a better deal than others.
Sick time? Again compares on the lower end of all airlines. The 1113 was even more disgusting.

The only things that we were out of line with comparisons were bidding and retirement. The new PBS system will take take of those productivity isses and the retirement was whacked. After that, we are well in line in any cost comparisons with all airlines, except USAir which has it's own reasons for that pay level.

Now you go and compare your groups costs against other airlines. Let me know what you find out for yourself and other AA employee groups. I don't like what happened in the airline world regarding things like overhaul and ramp workers, it is what it is.

 

[FWAAA]

I don't think it's going to that easy...wasn't code-sharing a major part of their business plan. In essence, AA has to revise it's business plan and give the APA some sort of furlough protection......those two items may throw AA for a loop....sort of like trying to find and repair a hydraulic leak up in the tail section of a 727 at departure time, and without a lift available to do it. I don't think it's going to so easy......just my thought.

You may be right. IMO, the unlimited domestic codesharing was a dumb idea. And since AA and the potential codeshare partners like B6 or AS or US aren't allowed to coordinate schedules (antitrust violation) or agree on pricing (antitrust violation) or agree on capacity or share profits on the codeshare routes (all would violate the antitrust laws), it's really just a way to make your network look bigger than it actually is without bringing much additional revenue (if any).

If those B6 routes are that important, make B6 shareholders an offer and buy B6. Same with AS. Then the pilots are happier (since DOH is essentially a staple) and the AA gets to do all the things it can't do with a simple codeshare.

Furloughs? The APA expert testified that the changes AA wanted were worth maybe $300k per year. Just delete the changes to the furlough clause and deal with furloughs like AA has for many years. Besides, AA envisions growth, so "what if" furlough provisions are a distraction.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

wonder what chicken little has to say now.Now the F/A's can vote no.TWU are a bunch of pansies.

We all know what the appointed, unaccountable ones in the international will say. "You voted yes!"

Now, the failed contract in 2010 was peddled as the world will end if you vote no. The membership voted no the world did not end.

The first t/a was peddled as if you vote no the judge will screw you worse. The membership voted no and we got a reshuffled t/a.

The second t/a was peddled as if you vote no the judge will screw you worse. There were 48 votes that swung the vote to a yes and everyone in M&E will pay the price for that cowardice as well as the rest of the industry.

The pilots voted no and the judge screwed them worse. OH! WAIT!!! The twu doesn't represent the pilots! They have a CRAFT and DEMOCRATIC union! The membership voted no and the judge told the company to renegotiate.

Hey, hewitt, don, bobby, gary! This this new developement kinda makes you look inept doesn't it? It also makes the alias loving, yes voting cowardly twu supporters on this web site look very stupid.