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AA overreached

Yeah, a few thousand people on Amon Carter BLVD who are called AA executives have "ruined it" for the workforce at AA.

A few thousand?... Please. Most of those working on Amon Carter earn considerably less than what an MD80 FO makes (~$95,000 according to the term sheet @ 73h per month). My programmers earned less than a crew chief...

I'd guess there are probably ~300 people in management who earn more than $100K... You want to hold those 300 responsible, go for it. But try to back off on the rest... They're just doing their job like y'all do.
 
Next for American Airlines: Flight attendants’ contract offer vote ends Sunday

By SHERYL JEAN
Staff Writer
sjean@dallasnews.com
Published: 16 August 2012 09:27 PM

It’s no secret that Laura Glading, president of the union representing flight attendants at American Airlines Inc., plans to vote yes on the carrier’s last contract proposal.

“The flight attendants know that,” she said after speaking to about 150 of them Thursday at an informational meeting held by the Association of Professional Flight Attendants at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport. Flight attendants vote through Sunday morning on American’s “last, best and final” contract offer.

If flight attendants reject the offer, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane could let American throw out its existing contract and impose new terms — the same issue that American and its pilots are going through.

Lane on Wednesday denied American’s request to toss out its contract with pilots, a week after they rejected a tentative agreement with the airline.

Glading called the ruling a “scathing” decision for labor. While Lane said the carrier’s proposals for unlimited furloughs and changes to its flight codesharing were too aggressive, he agreed with virtually all of the airline’s other arguments for its business plan and is letting it revise and resubmit its request.

“At first we — and others — saw it as a denial, but when you got down to the nitty-gritty in the 111 pages [of the ruling], there was no win for labor here,” APFA spokeswoman Leslie Mayo said. “It was aligned with every other bankruptcy in the airline industry.”

Faced with a similar prospect, the APFA is making a last-minute attempt to clarify issues for the more than 16,000 flight attendants at American it represents. “This is a crystal ball we’ve been handed,” Mayo said.

American and its parent, AMR Corp., filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in November and are trying to reduce labor costs as part of their reorganization. The companies say they need about $1 billion in annual labor savings, including $842 million from its unions, to be competitive.
Pilots’ status

American on Thursday presented the Allied Pilots Association with revised proposals on codesharing and furloughs. The airline plans to file its revised request to toss its pilots’ contract under Section 1113 of the bankruptcy code on Friday.

The airline has not attempted to restart negotiations, American spokesman Bruce Hicks said Thursday. “We’re moving forward with the 1113 process at this point … so we can get the cost certainty that we need,” Hicks said.

American’s unsecured creditors’ committee said in a statement that it supports the carrier’s plans and expects its revised proposal will be “sustained” by the bankruptcy court.

“Our only hesitation is that in bankruptcy court, it’s not always that easy to turn around a filing of such a contentious nature,” Michael Derchin, an airline analyst for CRT Capital Group in Stamford, Conn., wrote Thursday in a research note. “Delay seems inevitable.”

In a letter to members on Thursday, the APFA made it clear that Lane’s decision regarding the pilots’ contract was based on two specific arguments — unlimited codesharing capabilities and unlimited furloughs — that are unique to the pilots’ group.

Most of the other arguments that were rejected were identical to the flight attendants’ arguments, the APFA said.

In the APA’s case, Lane was not persuaded by the union’s arguments on two issues that were also raised by the flight attendants — convergence (a proposal that would put workers below standard industry wages) and a union request for certain information from the airline.

“Given the fact that most of our arguments have already been dismissed in this ruling … we do not expect the court’s 1113 ruling to go in our favor should we vote to reject the [contract offer],” the APFA said.

“If the flight attendants vote ‘yes,’ we can accomplish a lot more,” Glading said. “If no, the fight continues but it will be a distraction to manage furloughs and other things.”

She was referring to American’s ability to furlough up to 2,300 flight attendants if the tentative offer is rejected and Lane allows the airline to abrogate its existing contract. If both happen, American could impose the tougher terms for flight attendants that it outlined on March 22.

Examining the offer

American hopes flight attendants “take a very careful look at the issue before them,” Hicks said.

“We believe the last, best and final offer that they’re voting on is the right thing in that it provides a number of things for the flight attendants that would not be there in the March 22 term sheet, including the early-out option that would save the jobs for several thousand people, the signing bonus, the raises, the equity claim,” he said.

Tina Krugler, a 26-year flight attendant in North Texas, said she voted for the contract.
“I voted yes mainly because of the early-out option, which I really feel will save a lot of jobs,” Krugler said. “It’s the lesser of two evils.”

Co-worker Jay Narey said he’ll vote no mainly because “I don’t want to give the company a ratified agreement while it’s still in the exclusivity period” to file a plan of reorganization by Dec. 28.

Glading said the APFA’s goal has not changed.
“The goal is to merge with US Airways and protect our rights,” she said. “I believe the way to do that is to vote yes on the last, best and final offer. Some people want to amplify the pilots’ message to management with a no vote.”

American is reviewing its strategic options, including a possible deal with US Airways, as part of its bankruptcy restructuring. In April, leaders of American’s three unions announced that they supported a merger with US Airways.
American spokesman Andrew Backover said Monday that the company plans to finish that review by or in the fall.

“Ideally, in my opinion, the merger partners should work something out in bankruptcy,” said Vaughn Cordle, managing partner of Airline Forecasts in Washington, D.C. “There’s more value to be shared by stakeholders in bankruptcy.”
 
A few thousand?... Please. Most of those working on Amon Carter earn considerably less than what an MD80 FO makes (~$95,000 according to the term sheet @ 73h per month).

Yes, we do have 80/FO's making $95,000/yr (top of the pay scale), but we also have the guys that just came off furlough making $65,000/yr. and the rest are in-between.

Personally, for the amount of time I am away from my family, top end pay is the absolute MINIMUM I would accept for this job. I would gladly take a pay cut to be home every night. This is what I mean by AA management pushing everyone to the point of nothing to lose. We are now passing the point where the pay does not make the time away from home, wear and tear on the body, responsibility worth it.
 
Personally, for the amount of time I am away from my family, top end pay is the absolute MINIMUM I would accept for this job. I would gladly take a pay cut to be home every night. This is what I mean by AA management pushing everyone to the point of nothing to lose. We are now passing the point where the pay does not make the time away from home, wear and tear on the body, responsibility worth it.
and of course there are airlines that pay their crews more but still expect them to spend nights away just like airline crews traditionally had done.

It is absolutely true that AA is at the point of now asking its employees to take bottom of the barrel wages at the same time that other airlines are passing out pay raises.

It is indeed possible that many AA employees will determine they are better off forcing AA or its assets into the hands of other airlines that do pay wages high enough to meet their expectations or walking away from the industry altogether.
 
...Personally, for the amount of time I am away from my family, top end pay is the absolute MINIMUM I would accept for this job. I would gladly take a pay cut to be home every night. This is what I mean by AA management pushing everyone to the point of nothing to lose. We are now passing the point where the pay does not make the time away from home, wear and tear on the body, responsibility worth it.
Agreed.

“…[T]he Committee…firmly believes that consensual labor agreements are in the best interests of all of AMR's stakeholders…” APFA Hotline: Official Statement from the Unsecured Creditors Committee - August 16, 2012

As concerned as I am for the stockholders,
plain.gif
they don’t have to live under our work rules.

“…[T]he Committee believes that employees represented by the labor organizations will fare better and receive more value in agreements they accept consensually than will be the case in any situation where contracts must be abrogated and employment terms are imposed…” APFA Hotline: Official Statement from the Unsecured Creditors Committee - August 16, 2012

Although I sense the committee’s heartfelt concern about our work and family lives,
rolleyes.gif
I respectfully disagree.
 
Mod Note: Please do not post entire articles. A link and fair use excerpt is fine.
 
Yeah, a few thousand people on Amon Carter BLVD who are called AA executives have "ruined it" for the workforce at AA. You don't even have a clue if you think the APA members taking a possible job action against AA mangement is the problem at AA. Keep rolling over for management and see where that gets you.

I don't have a clue? Lets see, many of us, (including me) have been pontificating months before the BK that what is happening right now is what is going to happen if AA files for BK. Based on past BK's by other carriers, it was very easy to understand this simple concept. Sorry to say, ostensibly, it seems as if you, your friends/collegues, etc. are the ones who "don't seem to get it".

Blaming management only for the fault of everyone is neither intelligent nor productive.

AA's problems/mess is because of everyone, not because of a few people in management.


A few thousand?... Please. Most of those working on Amon Carter earn considerably less than what an MD80 FO makes (~$95,000 according to the term sheet @ 73h per month). My programmers earned less than a crew chief...

I'd guess there are probably ~300 people in management who earn more than $100K... You want to hold those 300 responsible, go for it. But try to back off on the rest... They're just doing their job like y'all do.

Not only that, 20% of management have already been fired.

Next for American Airlines: Flight attendants’ contract offer vote ends Sunday

By SHERYL JEAN
Staff Writer
sjean@dallasnews.com
Published: 16 August 2012 09:27 PM

It’s no secret that Laura Glading, president of the union representing flight attendants at American Airlines Inc., plans to vote yes on the carrier’s last contract proposal.

“The flight attendants know that,” she said after speaking to about 150 of them Thursday at an informational meeting held by the Association of Professional Flight Attendants at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport. Flight attendants vote through Sunday morning on American’s “last, best and final” contract offer.

Maybe Ms. Glading understands now what the Creditor's Committee is talking about:

"Second, the committee said it will not support any changes of “additional economic value” to American’s unions beyond current proposals made by the airline."

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/american-airlines-creditors-committee-issues-new-statement-regarding-union-equity-stakes-and-claims-under-section-1113-of-the-u-s-bankruptcy-code.html/

"The creditors’ committee of American Airlines (AA) parent AMR Corp. issued a stark warning to AA pilots and other unionized employees of the carrier and regional affiliate American Eagle to “promptly” reach consensual agreements with management on new labor contracts."

http://atwonline.com/operations-maintenance/news/amr-creditors-committee-american-unionized-workers-it-s-time-deal-0817



Yes, we do have 80/FO's making $95,000/yr (top of the pay scale), but we also have the guys that just came off furlough making $65,000/yr. and the rest are in-between.

Personally, for the amount of time I am away from my family, top end pay is the absolute MINIMUM I would accept for this job. I would gladly take a pay cut to be home every night. This is what I mean by AA management pushing everyone to the point of nothing to lose. We are now passing the point where the pay does not make the time away from home, wear and tear on the body, responsibility worth it.

1)There are many choices one can make it life rather than complaining and whining.

2)Tell me this, why do you think you should be making (salary, benefits, etc) more than your peers/competitors?
 
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strikeforce, on 16 August 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]

I'm betting that AA is in for a rude awakening if they decide to pursue abrogation......if you can read between the lines of APA Presidents statement to the pilots....."providing additional resources to the strke preparedness committee operations".......not exactly sure where AA will find 10K pilots by Saturday morning.[/background]


Some idiiot at the APA exposed the union to huge liability if there's a walkout. If it was Pres Wilson, then the pilots picked the wrong person to lead them. It's one thing to stage a wildcat strike but it's quite another to telegraph the union's financial liability for it on a public website.

According to the Judge, there were 7,664 active AA pilots on 2/1/12. I know where AA could find 2,935 pilots - the ones who voted yes on the LBO.


Remember the 6 minute Strike by the APA when they were stopped by a PEB. If you read the PEB you would know the judge did not rule in their favor. The major issue for the Pilots was stopping American Eagle by requiring all RJ flying to be done by AA Pilots. The Emergency Board (PEB) rejected that argument.
 
Buck - Reality Check is there something wrong with your eyesight?

No - But you need to lay off the AMFA Kool-aid, it might give you gas.
 
Remember the 6 minute Strike by the APA when they were stopped by a PEB. If you read the PEB you would know the judge did not rule in their favor. The major issue for the Pilots was stopping American Eagle by requiring all RJ flying to be done by AA Pilots. The Emergency Board (PEB) rejected that argument.

If you knew what a PEB was you'd know that it wasn't an order from a Judge, just a recommendation from a board appointed by the President.

What happened was a self serving division in APA blew all it's leverage capital by playing games and not preparing the membership for the see-saw battle. In the end, the pilots passed the PEB, mostly out of battle fatigue. AA tried the same delay, delay tactic with our negotiations before filing CHP11. The membership caught on, was unified and is even more so this morning.

If the pilots had turned down the PEB recommendation, another 30 day cooling off period would have started (or 60? I forget exactly)

After that, we could have been on strike or blocked by Congress, at which point the full house would vote on a contract for the pilots. If the full House passed a vote on it, it would become our new contract. If they declined or voted it down, we could strike and even the President could not stop a strike.
 
If you knew what a PEB was you'd know that it wasn't an order from a Judge, just a recommendation from a board appointed by the President.

I apologize for that lack of labor knowledge being presented by the TWU International poster named Realityck. The mechanics have to deal with this altered "reality" of how labor related events have played out on daily basis from those who are appointed and make at least twice what we do. 😉
Now don't be surprised if you are labeled an AMFA sympathizer for disagreeing with our international poster, even though you are a pilot. 😀
 
Jacobin,

(A Jacobin is someone who supports a centralized republic, with power concentrated at the federal level in contemporary usage... odd screen name...)


1)There are many choices one can make it life rather than complaining and whining.

So, stop. This is our fight--what do you care anyway?

2)Tell me this, why do you think you should be making (salary, benefits, etc) more than your peers/competitors?

As of right now, I am compensated as much as $50,000/yr less than some of my peers, based on straight no extra/premium flying. Other carriers are catching up to that standard, fast.

Despite how it may appear at first glance to the uninformed, and despite the company's claims and selective examples, the LBFO would have not only widened that gap, but actually resulted in further large pay cuts for large numbers of AA pilots, and massive numbers of jobs lost, likely forever, for others.

That, coupled with recent gains by other carriers, would result in AA pilots' compensation remaining far below that of thier peers, for most of them for the remainder of thier careers.

What idiot would volunteer for that?

Perhaps a more pertinent question would be "Why should the BK laws be allowed to be used in order to give a solvent, though mismanaged, company a huge competitive advantage over its peers/competitors?

G'day
 
"The creditors’ committee of American Airlines (AA) parent AMR Corp. issued a stark warning to AA pilots and other unionized employees of the carrier and regional affiliate American Eagle to “promptly” reach consensual agreements with management on new labor contracts."

http://atwonline.com...-time-deal-0817
We should promptly shoot ourselves in the foot?
dizzy.gif
 
We should promptly shoot ourselves in the foot?
dizzy.gif

(sarcasm on..)

Yes, of course we should

We should make this all easy for them

They don't like uncertainty, or pain

We should spare them those uncomfortable things

Why wouldn't we?

(sarcasm off...)

Aloha
 

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