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AA overreached

Not yet, but it's really just a matter of time, Bob. It wouldn't surprise me if in the next ten years, we see a state collapse under the pressure of pensions because its politicians were too weak to address the problem. That's why as bad as some wanted to make it out, the changes made in Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana may be what helps keep those states from going in the direction that California, Illinois and New York are heading: the latter three are strong Democratic strongholds, but also have the largest projected budget shortfalls.


Public sector pensions have already bankrupted a couple of cities and counties.

Pension funding in Illinois is causing cuts in education. And they're only 43% funded.

http://www.pewstates...ime-85899411937



Did the plans bankrupt them or did they fail to administer them properly?

For the most part the plans haven't changed but the funding situation has, mainly because its a reflection of the market. When the market improves generally the funding situation improves as well. In the 90s nearly all of them were overfunded and they relaxed requirements and even allowed companys to take money out and increase profit taking or spending. Maybe they need to put it back.
 
Not yet, but it's really just a matter of time, Bob. It wouldn't surprise me if in the next ten years, we see a state collapse under the pressure of pensions because its politicians were too weak to address the problem. That's why as bad as some wanted to make it out, the changes made in Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana may be what helps keep those states from going in the direction that California, Illinois and New York are heading: the latter three are strong Democratic strongholds, but also have the largest projected budget shortfalls.


Public sector pensions have already bankrupted a couple of cities and counties.

Pension funding in Illinois is causing cuts in education. And they're only 43% funded.

http://www.pewstates...ime-85899411937
"Public sector pensions have already bankrupted a couple of cities and counties" Why are pensions the problem?

Just another example of those pesky workers expecting something close to what the politicians and executives reward themselves with.
 
Corporate America isn’t the problem. Capitalism isn’t the problem. In our workgroup, Leftist FAs are the problem.

They value equality--e.g. everyone works the same hours--fraternity
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not liberty.
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In requiring that they have destroyed everyone’s schedule. Our Eurotrash FAs must have picked that mentality up in France. It'’s Un-American.

"Equality, which is the primary value of the left, is a European value, not an American value. Let me tell you that right now. I know this sounds offensive to half of my fellow Americans, because they have been Europeanized in their values. The French Revolution is not the American Revolution. The French Revolution said Liberty, Fraternity, Equality. The American Revolution said Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. We have lost touch with what our distinctive American values are. We have distinctive American values. … We have a better value system...(Prager)."

Liberals destroy all that they touch (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).
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You left out the first part of the sentence;


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
 
Just another example of those pesky workers expecting something close to what the politicians and executives reward themselves with.

Perhaps, but there's a huge difference between executives and unions arguing over who gets the biggest chunk of the profits generated by a business. Public sector unions simply negotiate for a larger chunk of your and my tax dollars. If you want a huge pension, go work for a company that generates large profits.

Nobody should grow up wanting to get rich working for the government...
 
Too many of you celebrated without having the facts and without understanding the true meaning of what actually happened. Maybe there is a reason we are at the bottom of the industry and it doesn't seem it has to do with the International. Thank God we accepted the deal. The alternative is so much clearer now.

The fact is that the Judge held that AA went to far, that they asked for things that were not an itegral part of their business plan and that were inconsistant with the industry. In the pilots contract, with our pilots going into this near the top of the industry he found only two items but it was enough to have him deny the motion without prejudice, in other words fix those things and you can come back. In the M&R contract there are multiple items that are not itegral to their business plan and inconsistant with industry practices.



Tom Roth testified that the ask from the mechanics was "Gross Overkill", none of the other groups used such strong language or had the data to back it up. None of those groups was as far below industry average as the mechanics.

During discussions on eliminating System Protection Jim Ream admitted that it was not needed for their plan but they simply wanted the flexibility should something happen in the future to be able to layoff as much as they felt was needed. UAL mechanics have Furlogh Protection from 12/ 31/2011, (yes I know they still have people laid off but) the APA right here at AA were offered furlough protection that covered 95% of their members. We have ZERO, and they said they didnt need it, they simply wanted the flexibility.

Our Paid Time Off, (Holidays, vacation, Sick time) is much lower than the rest of the industry.

Our work rules as far as OT and Field trips are no more restrictive than the rest of the industry in their present form, once again, they said that they simply wanted it and the Judge would give it to them.

What was important in the Judges decision is that he denied the motion because the company went too far, what they were asking for was not needed in their business plan and was inconsistant withat the practices in the rest of the industry, we were told that those things didnt matter, that the Judge would grant the motion no matter what they asked for. When told that I asked , "What if they asked for a 20 year deal with no pay increases? Would the Judge abrogate based on those terms? At what point does the ask become onerous?" I got no real answer from them, we just got it from the Judge.

The Sky didnt fall, the Pilts at least got to hear what the judge had to say about their arguement, and based on their arguement, their postion in the industry he ruled as he did, we will never even get to make our case and never know how he would have ruled. its possible that in order to abrogate the company would have had to bargain on system protection and paid time off.
 
If you want a huge pension, go work for a company that generates large profits.

Or become an executve at a company that doesnt.

Catapillar is making huge profits, that hasnt made them any more generous.
 
Only the Pilots know if they are willing to take this risk. We can speculate all we want to on this forum but it is still up to the AA pilots which direction AA goes.The court can impose the AA Term Sheets on the pilots but AA management may not like the results of taking such action.

Thats why they are all putting as much pressure on the pilots to accept, nobody wants to abrogate the pilots contract because unhappy pilots, even without doing anything "illegal" can run the company into the ground and make AA's next filing a real one.
 
Perhaps, but there's a huge difference between executives and unions arguing over who gets the biggest chunk of the profits generated by a business. Public sector unions simply negotiate for a larger chunk of your and my tax dollars. If you want a huge pension, go work for a company that generates large profits.

Nobody should grow up wanting to get rich working for the government...
I tried that. It didn't work.
 
I'm lost on your point in all of this...
Let’s just take care of our FAs. It’s a tough job. There is no reason to make it worse.

[Ringing cell phone saves woman's life: Attempted suicide saved by mom's long distance call to cops by Joe Kemp Thursday, July 21, 2011] “The ringing cell phone of a woman who tried to commit suicide in a Queens apartment led police to her limp body - saving her life, police sources and her mother said.

Averie Kenery, 32, swallowed a bottle of pills and called her mother and husband in Honolulu just before 5 p.m. Sunday to tell them, "I apologize for what I've done. Tell my kids I love them," a police source told the Daily News.

Kenery, a Delta flight attendant who was staying at a Hillside Ave. crash pad near Lefferts Blvd. in Kew Gardens, then lost consciousness and dropped her phone next to her body.” http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-07-21/local/29814433_1_ring-tone-flight-attendant-cell-phone
 

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