Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
- 882
- 12
AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
- Status
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
OK which LOA number is it then? LOA94 LOA95?
The Transition agreement is not IN the AAA or AWA CBA. It is not a LOA. It is a separate agreement called the "Transition Agreement" It doesn't say how long the "Transition" can take. Given the gem that the Nic award is attached I would say the 'transition" will take around 30 years.
Later,
Eye
Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
- 882
- 12
You guys are right if you are talking about an expiration/amendable date. But the TA is an addendum to our current contracts. So therefore it does fall under the RLA.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
The TA does allow for a mediator to be called in but the mediator is selected from the list of mediators in the TA not from the NMB. The TA is not a CBA or part of the CBA or listed in the CBA and not subject to the RLA rules for negotiating a CBA. There is no section 6, no requirement or timeline to reach an agreement, no federal mediation by the NMB, no impasse, no 30 day clock and no self help for a joint contract. There are all of these RLA protections for both the separate AWA and AAA CBA contracts and the TA specifically notes that all RLA CBA rights remain in effect for the separate contracts.
Cheers,
Eye
Cheers,
Eye
AWA320
Veteran
Put your selfish anger away EYE and lets move on. There is no way that this management will come anywhere close to allowing you to control this situation and their money!! Now you can continue to moan groan and cry all you want about this so called windfall that no one OUTSIDE of AAA pilots see!! Give up this stipid fight of yours as you are only bringing us all down. There was no winfall east!! You are on the combined list in the same place you were on your own list REALITIVE get to know it and understand it. The alternative was not so pretty for you and your brothren EYE...
- Thread Starter
- #306
US Airways ALPA BOS Council 32 First Officer Rep. Update #1 - September 27, 2007
Our Picketing in DCA
BOS Pilots,
We had an excellent, well attended march for Pay Parity in DCA today, with over 50 pilots on the picket line at any one time, and many others coming and joining us as their schedules permitted.
Our MEC Officers, Jack Stephan, Kim Snider and Mike D'Angelo were there, 5 MEC Reps, Mike Swiatkowski and myself (BOS), Bob Sauer and Don Baier (DCA), and Lance Svendsen (CLT), and Committee Chairmen Steve Smyser (SPC and Sched), Bob Crowther (J/S), and Doug Mowery (NC).
And then there were our storm troopers, many from BOS, who walked, in full uniform, with temperatures in the upper 80's, for almost 2 hours straight since we didn't want to take anyone off the picket line with so many news cameras taking pictures of them.
Volunteers all, picketing on their days off, and picketing for one thing...Pay Parity Now.
Not an "ALPA" event, not condoned, approved, or paid by ALPA National (in fact, they have now withheld all financing for such events unless we picket for a single contract, and a single contract only), but paid for by us, the "East" pilots.
And after all we've been through, I have personally never been more proud of a group a pilots in my life than those who walked today for all 3000 of us.
This was our first picketing event for Pay Parity Now, with many more to follow. And here's my message to this pilot group. If you truly want to bury this B-Scale and make Parker pay you what he pays his "West" pilots, then be at the next ones.
Fifty to seventy-five pilots is a superb beginning. Put three to four hundred out there at any one time and Doug Parker has a Revolution on his hands. And a Revolution over B-Scale is exactly what he deserves.
USAPA advocate? No problem. Let's get a pay raise first, and if you're successful in becoming the new bargaining agent, then you too will have a much higher bar from which to negotiate an industry leading contract.
In any event, we're going to be out there again with those who won't quit, and, as we did today, we're going to have our heads up when we do it.
Hope to see you there.
Fraternally,
Garland
CC: MEC
"A top World War II ace once said that fighter pilots fall into two broad categories: those who go out to kill and those who, secretly, desperately, kno they are going to get killed—the hunters and the hunted." — General Nathan F. Twinning, USAF
US Airways ALPA BOS Council 32 First Officer Rep. Update #2 - September 27, 2007
I won't do this to the next generation of pilots behind me
BOS Pilots,
During our Sept. 25-26 Special MEC Meeting we reaffirmed the direction that we intend to take this pilot group. Our guiding principles are defined by three previously passed Resolutions, which are:
---------------------------
1. We will reject any "Band-Aid" attempts to "fix" the Nicolau Award.
2. We will proceed with Separate Operations, and, along with the "West," will secure Separate, Equivalent Value, industry leading contracts.
3. We demand Pay Parity Now, and will withdraw from the JNC negotiations until we achieve Pay Parity, after which we will engage in JNC negotiations in order to achieve Separate, Equivalent Value, industry leading contracts.
--------------------------
Whose our ally? Nobody. As you know, we're on our own. Regardless, if we hold true to those 3 Resolutions, I have no doubt we'll succeed.
Compromise on these principles, and those allied against us are empowered by our apparent weakness, and only grow more determined to defeat us.
Lose this fight and you'll get a single agreement, and you'll get the Nicolau award, as is, and anyone who tells you otherwise is blowing smoke up your trouser leg.
And the Nicolau Award will plunge this pilot group into a nightmarish Civil War Hell beyond all imagining.
Not on my watch. As I told the MEC at this meeting, my DOH is contractually recognized by the Company, and printed on the back of my Company ID, as 11/03/80 (as we all know by now, seniority is only valid if it is so recognized by the Company who employs us). It's ALPA merger policy, not the Company, who didn't recognize this DOH as my seniority, and after 2 Nicolau Awards my seniority is now 2001. As such, I, and many like me, will retire after 28 years as a F/O.
And I won't do this to the next generation of pilots behind me.
Fraternally,
Garland
CC: MEC
Our Picketing in DCA
BOS Pilots,
We had an excellent, well attended march for Pay Parity in DCA today, with over 50 pilots on the picket line at any one time, and many others coming and joining us as their schedules permitted.
Our MEC Officers, Jack Stephan, Kim Snider and Mike D'Angelo were there, 5 MEC Reps, Mike Swiatkowski and myself (BOS), Bob Sauer and Don Baier (DCA), and Lance Svendsen (CLT), and Committee Chairmen Steve Smyser (SPC and Sched), Bob Crowther (J/S), and Doug Mowery (NC).
And then there were our storm troopers, many from BOS, who walked, in full uniform, with temperatures in the upper 80's, for almost 2 hours straight since we didn't want to take anyone off the picket line with so many news cameras taking pictures of them.
Volunteers all, picketing on their days off, and picketing for one thing...Pay Parity Now.
Not an "ALPA" event, not condoned, approved, or paid by ALPA National (in fact, they have now withheld all financing for such events unless we picket for a single contract, and a single contract only), but paid for by us, the "East" pilots.
And after all we've been through, I have personally never been more proud of a group a pilots in my life than those who walked today for all 3000 of us.
This was our first picketing event for Pay Parity Now, with many more to follow. And here's my message to this pilot group. If you truly want to bury this B-Scale and make Parker pay you what he pays his "West" pilots, then be at the next ones.
Fifty to seventy-five pilots is a superb beginning. Put three to four hundred out there at any one time and Doug Parker has a Revolution on his hands. And a Revolution over B-Scale is exactly what he deserves.
USAPA advocate? No problem. Let's get a pay raise first, and if you're successful in becoming the new bargaining agent, then you too will have a much higher bar from which to negotiate an industry leading contract.
In any event, we're going to be out there again with those who won't quit, and, as we did today, we're going to have our heads up when we do it.
Hope to see you there.
Fraternally,
Garland
CC: MEC
"A top World War II ace once said that fighter pilots fall into two broad categories: those who go out to kill and those who, secretly, desperately, kno they are going to get killed—the hunters and the hunted." — General Nathan F. Twinning, USAF
US Airways ALPA BOS Council 32 First Officer Rep. Update #2 - September 27, 2007
I won't do this to the next generation of pilots behind me
BOS Pilots,
During our Sept. 25-26 Special MEC Meeting we reaffirmed the direction that we intend to take this pilot group. Our guiding principles are defined by three previously passed Resolutions, which are:
---------------------------
1. We will reject any "Band-Aid" attempts to "fix" the Nicolau Award.
2. We will proceed with Separate Operations, and, along with the "West," will secure Separate, Equivalent Value, industry leading contracts.
3. We demand Pay Parity Now, and will withdraw from the JNC negotiations until we achieve Pay Parity, after which we will engage in JNC negotiations in order to achieve Separate, Equivalent Value, industry leading contracts.
--------------------------
Whose our ally? Nobody. As you know, we're on our own. Regardless, if we hold true to those 3 Resolutions, I have no doubt we'll succeed.
Compromise on these principles, and those allied against us are empowered by our apparent weakness, and only grow more determined to defeat us.
Lose this fight and you'll get a single agreement, and you'll get the Nicolau award, as is, and anyone who tells you otherwise is blowing smoke up your trouser leg.
And the Nicolau Award will plunge this pilot group into a nightmarish Civil War Hell beyond all imagining.
Not on my watch. As I told the MEC at this meeting, my DOH is contractually recognized by the Company, and printed on the back of my Company ID, as 11/03/80 (as we all know by now, seniority is only valid if it is so recognized by the Company who employs us). It's ALPA merger policy, not the Company, who didn't recognize this DOH as my seniority, and after 2 Nicolau Awards my seniority is now 2001. As such, I, and many like me, will retire after 28 years as a F/O.
And I won't do this to the next generation of pilots behind me.
Fraternally,
Garland
CC: MEC
Dog Wonder
Veteran
The daring rogue WWII fighter pilot lives on in the right seat of the US Airways Shuttle.
Dream on,
dream on,
dream on,
dream on.
Dream until your dreams come true.
Dream on,
dream on,
dream on,
dream on.
Dream until your dreams come true.
- Thread Starter
- #308
US Airways ALPA BOS Council 32 First Officer Rep. Update #3 - September 27, 2007
The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters?
BOS Pilots,
ALPA National writes:
------------------------
"In response to the protracted pace of negotiations, the US Airways pilots recently launched an "Equal Pay for Equal Work" campaign, and will picket the Washington National Airport today. The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters, and will continue to work toward achieving parity and beyond within the joint negotiations process."
------------------------
Two years ago the West MEC attempted to get your MEC to trade your seniority in a prenup seniority integration deal (worse than even the eventual Nicolau award, believe it or not!) for their support of our goal of reaching pay parity with them in the Transition Agreement. When we refused to make that trade, they withdrew their support for eliminating B-Scale on this property, and so notified Doug Parker.
Today, the West MEC is again attempting to trade your seniority by having the East accept the Nicolau award for their support in reaching "parity and beyond within the joint negotiations process."
Some things never change.
"The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters...?"
What absolute garbage.
Garland
CC: MEC
Press Release Source: Air Line Pilots Association
Pilots Urge Management to Take Final Steps to Merge America West and US Airways
Thursday September 27, 7:00 am ET
Lack of joint pilot contract delays achieving full merger synergies
WASHINGTON, Sept. 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The corporate merger of US Airways and America West (NYSE: LCC - News) was at one time met with critical acclaim by the investment community, but is now alienating loyal customers with its rock-bottom customer service, widespread mis-handling of baggage, and lagging on-time performance. Despite the fact that it has been two years since the merger, US Airways management has cashed in millions for themselves while the passengers, investors and employees of the airline are suffering from a half- finished merger.
This week, US Airways received a single FAA operating certificate. But rather than tackling the largest, most difficult issues first, management has chosen to continually delay the true operational merger of America West and US Airways, while reaping the benefit of keeping the labor groups separate to the detriment of the new airline and its passengers.
For two years, the pilots of America West and US Airways, who are both represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l. (ALPA), have met with management to negotiate a fair, single agreement that would bring them in line with each other, and recognize the contributions and sacrifices each made to ensure the viability of their respective airlines. During this time, the pilots have worked under separate, mediocre contracts that were either negotiated in bankruptcy or under severe government loan restrictions. Management has taken advantage of the pilots' sacrifices to fund their grand schemes for a bigger airline and make billions of dollars for themselves and their investors while keeping the pilots at bottom-of-the-barrel pay, work rules and benefits.
In response to the protracted pace of negotiations, the US Airways pilots recently launched an "Equal Pay for Equal Work" campaign, and will picket the Washington National Airport today. The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters, and will continue to work toward achieving parity and beyond within the joint negotiations process.
"We are ready, willing and able to negotiate a fair contract that benefits our pilots and our airline. From the beginning, we have stated that we will not pay for this merger, but considering how long it took for management to come to the table with their first economic proposal, they have clearly not gotten this message," said Captain John McIlvenna, chairman of the America West Master Executive Council. "It's time for management to stop trying to divide labor and come to the table with reasonable proposals that meet the needs of all US Airways pilots. Our pilots deserve a fair contract, and there is no reason why we cannot have a tentative agreement negotiated by the end of 2007. Management has made millions on the backs of labor and it is well past time for a return on our investments."
Prior to the merger, the two pilot groups negotiated a Transition Agreement with management requiring three components before the operational integration of the pilots could occur-a single FAA operating certificate, a joint collective bargaining agreement, and an integrated seniority list. With the single FAA operating certificate in place and a merged seniority list complete, a single pilot contract will allow management to complete the merger and capitalize on the yet unrealized synergies, which would benefit the investors, employees and passengers of the new US Airways.
The America West Airlines pilots' contract became amendable in December 2006. The US Airways pilots' contract becomes amendable in December 2009.
ALPA is the collective bargaining agent for the nearly 1,900 pilots at America West Airlines. Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's largest pilot union, representing more than 60,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Air Line Pilots Association
The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters?
BOS Pilots,
ALPA National writes:
------------------------
"In response to the protracted pace of negotiations, the US Airways pilots recently launched an "Equal Pay for Equal Work" campaign, and will picket the Washington National Airport today. The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters, and will continue to work toward achieving parity and beyond within the joint negotiations process."
------------------------
Two years ago the West MEC attempted to get your MEC to trade your seniority in a prenup seniority integration deal (worse than even the eventual Nicolau award, believe it or not!) for their support of our goal of reaching pay parity with them in the Transition Agreement. When we refused to make that trade, they withdrew their support for eliminating B-Scale on this property, and so notified Doug Parker.
Today, the West MEC is again attempting to trade your seniority by having the East accept the Nicolau award for their support in reaching "parity and beyond within the joint negotiations process."
Some things never change.
"The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters...?"
What absolute garbage.
Garland
CC: MEC
Press Release Source: Air Line Pilots Association
Pilots Urge Management to Take Final Steps to Merge America West and US Airways
Thursday September 27, 7:00 am ET
Lack of joint pilot contract delays achieving full merger synergies
WASHINGTON, Sept. 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The corporate merger of US Airways and America West (NYSE: LCC - News) was at one time met with critical acclaim by the investment community, but is now alienating loyal customers with its rock-bottom customer service, widespread mis-handling of baggage, and lagging on-time performance. Despite the fact that it has been two years since the merger, US Airways management has cashed in millions for themselves while the passengers, investors and employees of the airline are suffering from a half- finished merger.
This week, US Airways received a single FAA operating certificate. But rather than tackling the largest, most difficult issues first, management has chosen to continually delay the true operational merger of America West and US Airways, while reaping the benefit of keeping the labor groups separate to the detriment of the new airline and its passengers.
For two years, the pilots of America West and US Airways, who are both represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l. (ALPA), have met with management to negotiate a fair, single agreement that would bring them in line with each other, and recognize the contributions and sacrifices each made to ensure the viability of their respective airlines. During this time, the pilots have worked under separate, mediocre contracts that were either negotiated in bankruptcy or under severe government loan restrictions. Management has taken advantage of the pilots' sacrifices to fund their grand schemes for a bigger airline and make billions of dollars for themselves and their investors while keeping the pilots at bottom-of-the-barrel pay, work rules and benefits.
In response to the protracted pace of negotiations, the US Airways pilots recently launched an "Equal Pay for Equal Work" campaign, and will picket the Washington National Airport today. The America West pilots support the efforts of their union brothers and sisters, and will continue to work toward achieving parity and beyond within the joint negotiations process.
"We are ready, willing and able to negotiate a fair contract that benefits our pilots and our airline. From the beginning, we have stated that we will not pay for this merger, but considering how long it took for management to come to the table with their first economic proposal, they have clearly not gotten this message," said Captain John McIlvenna, chairman of the America West Master Executive Council. "It's time for management to stop trying to divide labor and come to the table with reasonable proposals that meet the needs of all US Airways pilots. Our pilots deserve a fair contract, and there is no reason why we cannot have a tentative agreement negotiated by the end of 2007. Management has made millions on the backs of labor and it is well past time for a return on our investments."
Prior to the merger, the two pilot groups negotiated a Transition Agreement with management requiring three components before the operational integration of the pilots could occur-a single FAA operating certificate, a joint collective bargaining agreement, and an integrated seniority list. With the single FAA operating certificate in place and a merged seniority list complete, a single pilot contract will allow management to complete the merger and capitalize on the yet unrealized synergies, which would benefit the investors, employees and passengers of the new US Airways.
The America West Airlines pilots' contract became amendable in December 2006. The US Airways pilots' contract becomes amendable in December 2009.
ALPA is the collective bargaining agent for the nearly 1,900 pilots at America West Airlines. Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's largest pilot union, representing more than 60,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Air Line Pilots Association
- Thread Starter
- #309
AWA320,
You still do not get it.
The majority of East pilots would prefer to live under LOA 93 and prevent the Nicolau Award than to obtain a new contract and have the Nicolau Award implemented. Furthermore, there is nothing ALPA International or you can do about this because according to Mike Abram, ALPA's outside counsel from Cowen, Weiss, and Simon any joint contract TA requires separate membership ratification from both the East and West pilot groups.
Guess what? It will never happen unless there is what Paul Rice calls a "realistic solution". If the AWA wants to find a "realistic solution" fine, otherwise, the AWA MEC should proceed with Section 6 negotiations because it's their only way to get contract improvements.
However, why would the majority of the East pilots prefer to live under LOA 93? They get meaningful pay raises when reserves become blockholders, First Officer's become Captain's, and narrowbody pilots become widebody piltos. In addition, the Group II First Officer's can get a pay raise and move out of the right seat by upgrading to an EMB-190 Captain. Another benefit to remaining separate and all East pilots will receive approximately two $12,000 bonuses paid on January 1, 2010, and January 1, 2011. Other benefits include 490 pilots added to the seniority list in 2008 with almost all of them based east of the Mississippi River, the East pilots keeping their current scheduling system versus having to adjust to Pref Bid, and improved East pilot quality of life.
And, guess what the East pilots will keep all of this when USAPA becomes the new bargaining agent for both the East and West pilots in about 4 months.
What do the West and every other airline pilot get during this period? Nothing. The West pilots will live under their current contract and continue to have stagnation. And, no other major airline pilot will see a pay raise because thier management's will not grant one as long as LOA 93 exists, according to John Prater.
Another reason the East pilots will not permit the Nicolau Award to proceed in exchange for a pay raise, is that the pay raise will be temporary if the Nicolau Award proceeds. Why? The AWA pilots will chase the widebody flying, there are 300 AWA pilots who live east of the Mississippi River who will bid east, and AWA F/O’s will come east to be blockholding Captain’s. Therefore, East pilots might get an hourly pay rate increase, but many pilots will be bumped back to reserve and then have the same gross pay as today. The difference? East pilots with year's and year's of service will be slaves to the reserve system.
Regards,
USA320pilot
You still do not get it.
The majority of East pilots would prefer to live under LOA 93 and prevent the Nicolau Award than to obtain a new contract and have the Nicolau Award implemented. Furthermore, there is nothing ALPA International or you can do about this because according to Mike Abram, ALPA's outside counsel from Cowen, Weiss, and Simon any joint contract TA requires separate membership ratification from both the East and West pilot groups.
Guess what? It will never happen unless there is what Paul Rice calls a "realistic solution". If the AWA wants to find a "realistic solution" fine, otherwise, the AWA MEC should proceed with Section 6 negotiations because it's their only way to get contract improvements.
However, why would the majority of the East pilots prefer to live under LOA 93? They get meaningful pay raises when reserves become blockholders, First Officer's become Captain's, and narrowbody pilots become widebody piltos. In addition, the Group II First Officer's can get a pay raise and move out of the right seat by upgrading to an EMB-190 Captain. Another benefit to remaining separate and all East pilots will receive approximately two $12,000 bonuses paid on January 1, 2010, and January 1, 2011. Other benefits include 490 pilots added to the seniority list in 2008 with almost all of them based east of the Mississippi River, the East pilots keeping their current scheduling system versus having to adjust to Pref Bid, and improved East pilot quality of life.
And, guess what the East pilots will keep all of this when USAPA becomes the new bargaining agent for both the East and West pilots in about 4 months.
What do the West and every other airline pilot get during this period? Nothing. The West pilots will live under their current contract and continue to have stagnation. And, no other major airline pilot will see a pay raise because thier management's will not grant one as long as LOA 93 exists, according to John Prater.
Another reason the East pilots will not permit the Nicolau Award to proceed in exchange for a pay raise, is that the pay raise will be temporary if the Nicolau Award proceeds. Why? The AWA pilots will chase the widebody flying, there are 300 AWA pilots who live east of the Mississippi River who will bid east, and AWA F/O’s will come east to be blockholding Captain’s. Therefore, East pilots might get an hourly pay rate increase, but many pilots will be bumped back to reserve and then have the same gross pay as today. The difference? East pilots with year's and year's of service will be slaves to the reserve system.
Regards,
USA320pilot
dariencc
Veteran
- Dec 4, 2006
- 1,284
- 1,932
There has always been a cringe factor when reading the grandiose writings of the would be combat ace. The guy has got a few issues. Most of us find his writings embarrassing.
As far as his thirst for the battle goes, the guy never met a concession he didn't like. Talks like Pappy Boyington, fights like Richard Simmons.
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
- Status
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