Afa Meeting

[Whatnow?]

Are the United F/As on average a younger group with fewer years of service than US?

If they are why would they vote to keep DOH?

Umm, because that's the way its been for AFA for quite some time now. <_< And UAL is FAR more senior than US! B)

 

[Light Years]

I'm not sure about that... UAL is much bigger, and has varying levels of seniority. US is a major airline chopped in half with only the most senior half remaining. US also took almost decade long beaks from hiring.

UA-AFA were not happy about merging with US either. They wanted to switch unions from AFA... at least they weren't trying to change the rules they had already worked under.

 

[bootRiggle]

Has anyone actually looked at what the integrated seniority list will look like?

My outsider understanding is that a great many senior US F/A's are bailing out anyway and they may have to actually hire off the streets or go to the recall list.

Now here is a fairness question. Assume that DOH prevails and you can make a pretty good argument that it should, given the precedents established. US is returning some 50 plus A/C and HP like 10 which will likely result in furloughs. Shouldn't the seniority lists be integrated post A/C return?

Would seem to me that US/East should trim it's ranks based on the staffing required for 50+ less planes while US/West does the same, THEN the list is integrated based on DOH.

I think regardless if FA's are on or off property, they will be merged as DOH.

 

[Whatnow?]

Has anyone actually looked at what the integrated seniority list will look like?

My outsider understanding is that a great many senior US F/A's are bailing out anyway and they may have to actually hire off the streets or go to the recall list.

Now here is a fairness question. Assume that DOH prevails and you can make a pretty good argument that it should, given the precedents established. US is returning some 50 plus A/C and HP like 10 which will likely result in furloughs. Shouldn't the seniority lists be integrated post A/C return?

Would seem to me that US/East should trim it's ranks based on the staffing required for 50+ less planes while US/West does the same, THEN the list is integrated based on DOH.

That is pretty much what is already happening at US/East....the reduction in A/C has resulted in pretty much an overstaffing of positions. Because of the reductions, F/A's are going back on RSV in the big bases up to 23 years. In addition, there are in the neighborhood of 300+ F/A's scheduled to come back from Voluntary Furloughs December 1st, and about 170 sheduled to leave from last years buyout, so the numbers STILL don't add up to adequate staffing levels because there are quite a few A/C still leaving the property until February 2006. My guess is that there will be another "buyout" offered the beginning of 2006 to correct this problem. :unsure: My guess is that seniority integretion will begin sometime after US/East has made all of their reductions.

 

[HPGUY]

My personal opinion is that if the AFA bylaws state date of hire, then it should indeed be date of hire. The issue should have been addressed prior to or in the early stages of merger talks, not after the deal was done. I hope this doesnt create a great deal of annimosity between east and west. I also dont agree with a fence. If I'm not mistaken, the way it currently works is that a sr. f/a can not displace a jr. f/a from his/her base. the only way to transfer from base to base is if there is an opening. I think the west f/a's are afraid that the east f/a's are going to bump them out of PHX and LAS. That is not the case. Most sr. f/a's plan on staying where they are. Not many want to uproot their families...heck, they didnt want to do it when PIT closed, to move to CLT or PHL...I cant see a mad rush on for PHX

Though I agree it would be unfair for AFA to change the bylaws at this point, I think the US/West FAs are trying to protect their interests. Prior to the announcement of the merger there was no reason for them to protest those bylaws and I doubt that most of them knew they existed. Who can blame them for trying to change something they feel is unfair? I doubt any group would have acted differently. I disagree with this agenda item on many counts but I don't blame the US/West FAs for proposing it.

 

[tahitigirl]

That is pretty much what is already happening at US/East....the reduction in A/C has resulted in pretty much an overstaffing of positions. Because of the reductions, F/A's are going back on RSV in the big bases up to 23 years. In addition, there are in the neighborhood of 300+ F/A's scheduled to come back from Voluntary Furloughs December 1st, and about 170 sheduled to leave from last years buyout, so the numbers STILL don't add up to adequate staffing levels because there are quite a few A/C still leaving the property until February 2006. My guess is that there will be another "buyout" offered the beginning of 2006 to correct this problem. :unsure: My guess is that seniority integretion will begin sometime after US/East has made all of their reductions.

Kind of what I thought. They may even offer a "buyout" across the board. I'm sure there are US east and west that are ready to leave.

 

[TheNewLowFare]

From what I know, all AFA MECs from different airline gets to vote on this. This includes Alaska, AirTran, Aloha, UAL , US etc. and not just America West. It's all AFA carriers, so it would be interesting what the result is going to be.

 

[proudf/a]

Though I agree it would be unfair for AFA to change the bylaws at this point, I think the US/West FAs are trying to protect their interests. Prior to the announcement of the merger there was no reason for them to protest those bylaws and I doubt that most of them knew they existed. Who can blame them for trying to change something they feel is unfair? I doubt any group would have acted differently. I disagree with this agenda item on many counts but I don't blame the US/West FAs for proposing it.

You are right, however having lived through this many times here at Ueast, it really isnt as bad as they think. I was a new hire back in the late 80's when U took on Piedmont/PSA/Trump, i lost thousands of numbers in seniority, system wide. BUT my status in my base didnt change any amount to notice. In fact it was better 10 yrs ago then it is today, considering the downsizing of my base. Merging seniority has had absolutely nothing to do with my bidding status. The downsizing of my base, has left me very junior with 20 yrs seniority, in my base. Their bidding status will not change in their base unless there are base openings for transfers. Since Uwest has only ever had to deal with one base, an all 2500+ f/a's being based there, they are not educated on how base transfers work. No openings, no transfers..its that simple. I am stuck on reserve in PIT because the only base openings available at this time are BOS and LGA, I have no desire to commute to either of those cities, so I sit on reserve.

 

[Whatnow?]

Kind of what I thought. They may even offer a "buyout" across the board. I'm sure there are US east and west that are ready to leave.

There are plenty that are ready to leave.....especially if the bylaws are changed, that's all that the US/East F/A's have left to give! At that point, seniority would no longer be an issue because there would be nobody left on the East!

 

[proudf/a]

From what I know, all AFA MECs from different airline gets to vote on this. This includes Alaska, AirTran, Aloha, UAL , US etc. and not just America West. It's all AFA carriers, so it would be interesting what the result is going to be.

Every airline represented by AFA, will have a vote. Depending on the size of your airline, depends how many votes they carry. Ueast gets 6 votes. Ueast has 6 crew bases, 6 LEC's. UAL carries something like 14 or 16 votes. Alaska somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 i think. Uwest has one vote. ETC ETC for all airlines. This vote will effect every airline represented by AFA not just USAirways. That is nearly 46,000 f/a's that will be affected by this. Thats alot of weight on the shoulders of the BOD. They will NOT take this lightly.

 

[HPGUY]

You are right, however having lived through this many times here at Ueast, it really isnt as bad as they think. I was a new hire back in the late 80's when U took on Piedmont/PSA/Trump, i lost thousands of numbers in seniority, system wide. BUT my status in my base didnt change any amount to notice. In fact it was better 10 yrs ago then it is today, considering the downsizing of my base. Merging seniority has had absolutely nothing to do with my bidding status. The downsizing of my base, has left me very junior with 20 yrs seniority, in my base. Their bidding status will not change in their base unless there are base openings for transfers. Since Uwest has only ever had to deal with one base, an all 2500+ f/a's being based there, they are not educated on how base transfers work. No openings, no transfers..its that simple. I am stuck on reserve in PIT because the only base openings available at this time are BOS and LGA, I have no desire to commute to either of those cities, so I sit on reserve.

I agree it's not as bad as they think but they'll still just doing what they thing they need to do.

 

[USstew23]

I agree it's not as bad as they think but they'll still just doing what they thing they need to do.

 

[UWCactus]

Speaking of seniority, does anyone know what the off line policies are and have been for US Airways. If you leave the line do you keep FA seniority? Does it matter which department you transfer to? Has the same policy been in effect for a long time? Can you leave the line now and maintain seniority for at least a year? Did the polilcy ever change?

 

[proudf/a]

Speaking of seniority, does anyone know what the off line policies are and have been for US Airways. If you leave the line do you keep FA seniority? Does it matter which department you transfer to? Has the same policy been in effect for a long time? Can you leave the line now and maintain seniority for at least a year? Did the polilcy ever change?

You mean, like if you go into the office as a supervisor or into the training dept? If that is what you mean, the policy has always been, you retain your f/a seniority. If you totally leave the inflt department, then you would lose the f/a seniority. I do not know if that policy has changed. We have f/a's that started as a gate agent. For travel benefits they retain their original doh, but when they started as a f/a they were given another doh used for f/a seniority. Does this answer your question, at all?

 

[USstew23]

Whoops sorry. New here-- :blink: as a furlughed US/East flight attendant with 4 active years the only thing I can really ask for is to come back (when all is said and done) with my 4 active years. So what if I spend some time at the bottom of the HP list, maybe I'll learn something new, after all the HP folk have some history to bring to this as well. I hope everyone can agree but I'm really not interested in bumping, flushing, wiping or anything else like that. I'm just ready for this to be over with so we can show all of the skeptics that we CAN do what they said we couldn't.