Afa To Challenge 21% Wage Cut In Court

[700UW]

If you are accusing me of something, post the facts and not your assumptions.

Like I said the ATSB and US negotiated new loan convenants, the old ones prevented US from filing a voluntary petition. Those facts are well documented.

Go ask Boeing Boy if you dont believe it.

But I would not expect the truth from someone like you who was caught in misrepresenting yourself.

 

[BoeingBoy]

We have to do what it takes to keep it, like they did at CAL instead of EAL.

[post="195738"][/post]​

For someone that that claims to have been around the industry for so long, you must have not been paying attention.

The CAL pilots went on strike when Lorenzo tried to break their contract. They were willing to stand up against the "robber Baron", even if it meant the loss of their job.

Jim

 

[UseYourHead]

Jim,

I am not talking about that. After the strike, CAL went for a decade in and out of BK, with many mergers and aquisistions, and much hardship. In the end, even with all of the negatives, the employees pulled through after many many paycuts, loss of contracts, and so on.

I wasn't until after a decade that Gordon arrived....

EAL employees had a shut it down and we'll show him attitude and that is exactly what they got...no job.

They both had the same boss, Lorenzo.

For someone that that claims to have been around the industry for so long, you must have not been paying attention.

The CAL pilots went on strike when Lorenzo tried to break their contract. They were willing to stand up against the "robber Baron", even if it meant the loss of their job.

Jim

[post="195766"][/post]​

 

[700UW]

In and out of bankruptcy?

They have only filed twice, get your facts straight and Lorenzo was gone when they filed the second time, Beuthene was in charge.

Well I guess you would do anything to keep your job.

Unless the company deals fairly, this place will shut down.

 

[UseYourHead]

Lorenzo did not "try" to break the contract, he absolutly did break the contract, and they worked under those crappy conditions for years.

The strike was totally ineffective, and did not stop Lorenzo. What did come out of it was some changes in BK laws with respect to breaking contracts and so on.

But again, CAL employees sucked it up, and came out the other end as a good place to work...EAL simply shut it down.

I pick CAL (I used to work there through the purchase of People Express).

It was not any fun, but they survived, we can too, but not with a EAL attitude.

The CAL pilots went on strike when Lorenzo tried to break their contract. They were willing to stand up against the "robber Baron", even if it meant the loss of their job.

Jim

[post="195766"][/post]​

 

[BoeingBoy]

Lorenzo did not "try" to break the contract, he absolutly did break the contract, and they worked under those crappy conditions for years.

The strike was totally ineffective, and did not stop Lorenzo. What did come out of it was some changes in BK laws with respect to breaking contracts and so on.

But again, CAL employees sucked it up, and came out the other end as a good place to work...EAL simply shut it down.

I pick CAL (I used to work there through the purchase of People Express).

It was not any fun, but they survived, we can too, but not with a EAL attitude.

[post="195785"][/post]​

 

[diogenes]

Because we waited so lon to negotiate, we are being compared to what it takes to survive. The ALPA advisors said this would happen.

We will have another day to fight for raises up to LCC standards, sad really, we should have listened.

[post="195687"][/post]​

Sorry, that math does not add up.

The company 'asked' (akin to how Jesse James 'asked' for a loan)for a few hundred million less, prior to entry into BK, than their current 'ask'. The value of the current ask stretches into the billions.

Moreover, it is sensible that employees pay a short term premium to restore U's balance sheet - their is no other investor on the horizon. But 2011 is not short term, is it?

 

[usfliboi]

700, u talk of proof... you have no proff of who i am or not, so why do you say it? Been cleaning any lavs lately? Hows the high command at IAM doing now? You keeping them in line and in touch? Your as bad as you were on yahoo....

 

[700UW]

Invest in a spell check.

You were proven by myself and others not to be who you claim, convient memory?
Shall I go and post them for you like I have done for another poster to show the lack of credibility?

And like I have posted, please post the facts and refute what I say instead of attacking and insulting to try and divert the issues at hand.

Nope can't say I have, I am off doing meaningful work.

IEspell

 

[BoeingBoy]

Lorenzo did not "try" to break the contract, he absolutly did break the contract, and they worked under those crappy conditions for years.

The strike was totally ineffective, and did not stop Lorenzo. What did come out of it was some changes in BK laws with respect to breaking contracts and so on.

But again, CAL employees sucked it up, and came out the other end as a good place to work...EAL simply shut it down.

I pick CAL (I used to work there through the purchase of People Express).

It was not any fun, but they survived, we can too, but not with a EAL attitude.

[post="195785"][/post]​

When the pilot's struck, Lorenzo was "trying" to break the contract. And the "they" you speak of are the scabs who took their jobs.

Either the strike was totally ineffective, or some good came out of it. You have to pick one side of the argument.

Then there's your EAL/CAL comparison. Strikes at both places, both on the way to oblivion. EAL finished the journey, CAL did not. So what was the difference? Could it have been the change in management at CAL (something both strikes helped bring about). A change to a management that worked with the employees and wanted the employees to succeed with the company, as opposed to the company succeeding on the backs of the employees as the previous management wanted.

Those at CAL that weren't willing to risk it all can take no credit for the changes that propelled CAL to where it is today.

They, like many here, were willing to accept whatever management dished out if only they could keep their job.

They, like many here, were perfectly willing to reap the rewards that others fought for but were unwilling to take part in the fight to get those rewards.

They, like many here, are nothing more than vultures, feeding off other's victories but unwilling to risk themselves no matter what.

They, like many here, recognize no greater calling than "What's in it for me?".

So when you say "They sucked it up", you're right. They sucked up the rewards that others fought for. They sucked up the gains that others sacrificed all for. They sucked up to those inflicting the damage on a company and a profession.

Jim

 

[Rico]

Wow. Look at all these posts... Hehe

Anyways, Instead of reading through 8 pages of this, I can simply scroll back to a recent 700UW post on this page to start from where I left off. I am quite sure it is 8 pages of the same thing. For example:

They (CAL) have only filed twice, get your facts straight and Lorenzo was gone when they (CAL) filed the second time, Beuthene was in charge.

Really?

When I was AT Continental (flying for a feeder), I seem to remember Gordon Beuthene taking over after Robert Furgeson (you know, "Mr CalLite", later known as Mr. "Midway Airlines") had left..., Years after the last CAL BK filing...

But I guess I should get my "facts straight", eh 700UW? Because you said Beuthene was "in charge" of CAL long before that, right...?

Hmm, coulda swore he was a Boeing Exec back then... But Hey, Why should you stick to reality and truth now 700UW, when incorrect fantasies and skewered perception has served you so well for so long...? But then again, if you are wrong about this, you could be wrong about a lot of things eh?

So go get a copy of "From Worst to First" by Gordon, or take the time to talk to him as he waits for a flight out of SAN, and learn something. Or at least quote upon something (that you can fake knowledge of) far better than that last attempt.

Peace B)

Oh BTW, what does ANY of this have to do with the silly motion by the AFA to have the judge reverse his decision, and treat the AFA differently than all of the other work groups...?

😱ff:

 

[BostonTerrier]

Invest *is* a spell check.

You were proven by myself and others not to be who you claim, *convient* memory?
Shall I go and post them for you like I have done for another poster to show the lack of credibility?

And like I have posted, please post the facts and refute what I say instead of attacking and insulting to try and divert the issues at hand.

Nope can't say I have, I am off doing meaningful work.

IEspell

[post="195796"][/post]​

now, now 700UW...

always good to proofread and spell check your own replies before attacking others as to their writing ability.

minus 10 points for you.

:blink:

 

[Whatnow?]

UYH,


We're all leaving pal..right after the vote!

[post="195761"][/post]​

PitBull, you're amazing......If, all of us as you say are leaving then why are we ALL STILL here now? I really think you need to check your facts before you continue to include ALL of us in on YOUR OWN DOOMED AGENDA! Stop wasting valuable time, this Company has their own agenda too.....unfortunately, things WILL never be like they used to. This Company nor the Judge have any sympathy for any of these groups right now because its all a matter of financial survival for USAirways. What we need to do is come to an agreement before the final hour, because it does'nt get better from here out! I appreciate your passion and drive for protecting the profession but times have changed and all your hard work is falling on deaf ears.

 

[luvn737s]

Bottomline PitBull, no one cares about our job but US. We have to do what it takes to keep it, like they did at CAL instead of EAL.

[post="195738"][/post]​

Do have any idea what you're talking about? The EAL strike and shutdown was a result of Lorenzo's gutting of EAL (sale of System One, transfer of assets to CAL and NYAir, etc.) and the employees being unwilling to be accomplices in their own professional homocide. EAL was a choice plum for Lorenzo because it was burdened by enormous debt and had a history (short term) of extremely poor management. He never had any intention of growing it, only stripping it of it's undervalued assets and discarding the carcass. CAL was in the process of being built from the same ingredients (using more Texas Air assets as well as Peoples and Frontier) to do the same all over again. Some CAL pilots stood up, many did not, and many more from the outside saw this as an opportunity to turn one groups valor into their personal windfall.

US is not facing this threat. US management is instead attempting to preserve an airline by gutting it's labor, as opposed to assets and labor. Instead of facing the hobson's choice of airline or no airline, US employees are facing the choice of profession or no profession and the implications of their choice spread throughout the industry.

The airline can be forced to make smart strategic moves in spite of itself, or it can be enabled to continue on a failed path by accepting the premise that labor is the problem. If US had a transformation plan that had real hope, the investment community would be rolling it's wheelbarrows of cash to the door. But as I've said before, if there is no money for employees, there's no money for investors.

 

[Rico]

Who cares if you leave PitBull...?

If anything the "MDA" part of Mainline has been an experiment to see if the rest Mainline could be transformed. Dealing with challenges Mainline has not had to, MDA has done very well. Everyone on here that keeps claiming "Airways is doomed" seems to forget that.

There are plenty of Flight Attendants that have sought to return to, and work at MDA. I can attest that our MDA F/A's do a great job, are positive, and look forward to the future. Can you say the same about yourself...?

So I point to MDA as an example of people that give a "&^*#" will be sticking around, and WILL make the remainder of Mainline work very well, thank you.

Your egotistical opinion that Airways will fall apart upon your departure, pales in comparison to the example, that the E170 Division of Mainline has been able to set, by being successful without you so far (as will the remainder of Airways if you do leave).