AFA Yes DOH NO!

:down: Cooper, ive been reading all the responses to your thread and it does seem as if you are a broken record. We get your point and what you are trying to say but you need to be aware of facts and all that happens in a merger, not just worrying about you being stuck at the bottom. We all make up a company not just you at the bottom. We all have put in our time with the airlines and many of us have been through mergers and worked for more than one airline, suffice to say would guess youve only ever worked for one airline and are fairly junior. SHUT UP and get with the program.


Dear Fly
I really dont think it is necessary to tell me to SHUT UP. You must have worked for many airlines and therefore that is why you have become jaded and bitter and so nasty to others who have a different opinion. Yes I have repeated my argument but it is because people like you dont seem to get it and I feel just as passionate about DOH as others feel about voting in AFA at all cost. I am looking at the long term view and not short sided contractual issues that can be renegotiated unlike seniority. Once we have voted in DOH that is final. Its too bad that you cant see the bigger picture.
 
Bababooy:

To answer your questions, YES, I worked for a non-union airline before I came to NWA. And, yes...there is a big difference having a legal contract and not having one.

Before you compare Richard Anderson to AFA -- and evaluate who really is looking out for OUR best interests as FAs, maybe you should start asking some really good questions. Like, for example...

* Why doesn't Delta's website disclose that Richard Anderson worked with Frank Lorenzo at Texas Air Corp (Continental)? Don't you think that's relevant to the kind of leader he is going to be for YOUR Delta ? Prior to joining Northwest Airlines Corp., he served as Staff Vice President and Deputy General Counsel of Continental Airlines. He began with Continental in 1987 -- two full year before the Eastern strike.

* Richard oversaw the largest export (outsourcing) of our mechanics jobs in our history and oversaw the negotiations strategy that came to us (outsourcing FA jobs).

* Richard tried to bust our independant union (PFAA) by denying our contractual dues check off (ie. he tried to financially strangle our union).

* Not one penny in improvements were granted during the time he was our CEO - in fact, he tried several times to extract deep concessions from us. His letter he sent to you recently (with anti-union DVD) flat out lies about this.

So, explain to me how much better Richard is going to be for your career when you hold him up against the 60 years of work that AFA has done to safeguard and protect our profession. Sorry, but I meant it when I said that you all will be very sorry if you don't arm yourselves with the protections you deserve. Imagine what life will be like with 40% job losses (outsourcing) and working on board the aircraft (with a loss of your seniority, because you were against DOH) with NWA FAs who resent you for being so gullible and trusting. Unfortunately, that's what I predict if you fail in your election. And, keep in mind that I predicted a year and a half ago that Richard Anderson was going to appear as your CEO as part of an internal [hostile] takeover of Delta and I was correct, wasn't I ?
 
Can someone explain this? It doesn't sound like DOH is written in stone here.

Flight Attendant System Seniority List - Other
In the event Northwest Airlines, Inc. purchases, absorbs or merges with another airline, or disposes of its
operations as a whole, the Flight Attendant System Seniority List of Northwest Airlines, Inc. and of the other
company or companies involved, shall at such time be determined by agreement between the representatives
of the respective Flight Attendant groups involved, and the Company's recommendations.

Found here:

Section 20 b 3 link
 
Danny

AFA and its activist state date of hire is the only "Fair" way to integrate seniority. Fair for who? NW, any way you look at the numbers NW F/A's come up senior to DL. It has also been said that date of hire is the only way to avoid animosity is with date of hire, can you let us know how the Repbulic and NW F/A's get along, is there still some friction between the two? No matter what method is used someone will be unhappy, what is wrong with AFA coming out and telling the DL F/A's that if AFA is elected, AFA will make a one time exception to date of hire and let the NW and DL F/A's reach a fair and equitable solution?

It is amusing how AFA will accuse DL of not telling the truth, well there have been several issues where AFA has lied and misrepresented or twisted the facts, why is that o.k.? I have yet to see anything from AFA regarding the W2 issue, what the equity payment consisted of (not all cash), how DL has a 401K match and NW does not, etc. I have been flying with people who did vote for AFA and tried to convince me to do the same. They have been led to believe by others who support AFA that we will be able to get everything back that we lost, "ALL" of our money back, our pensions, vaction, etc. Is this factual? No it is not. The airline industry has changed forever and we need to accept it.
 
Bulldog63:

First, take a careful look at this seniority comparison graph; http://www.deltaafa.org/aefiles/NWADALSeniority.pdf

Unless you completely don't understand seniority integration - it is painfully obvious that Delta FAs are more senior to NWA FAs. So, it is completely FALSE that we stand to gain from DOH. Let me say it as clear as I can -- IT IS THE DELTA FAs WHO STAND TO GAIN FROM OUR DOH POLICY -- NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I really think some of you are completely confused here -- perhaps because you are not very well researched or experienced with how these things work. We (NWA) FAs are not going to reach any agreement with you on our seniority that is less than DOH. However, if you all want to take us on and seek a worse outcome from us on seniority, they we ARE GOING TO ARBITRATION. When this happens, you are about to roll the dice on an issue that I strongly believe you are going to regret. You have no justification for a better seniority placement -- but on the other hand, WE DO. I can only imagine what our opening argument will sound like....

"Delta FAs have no contractual rights to ANY seniority protections. They have left their fate in the hands of their management for decades, while we (NWA) have fought in the courts, at the bargaining table, through tough negotiations, strikes vote, contract campaigns and on the streets for our protections. While we sought the fairest means of seniority integration (DOH), they stood behind their executive management's suits and spit in our eye with an effort to steal our hard fought seniority rights. They have no contract language to hold up and support their arguments for anything better than date-of-hire and considering they are the more senior group, it is the NWA FAs who should be rewarded and equalized with a better seniority placement. When given the opportunity to take legal responsibility for their seniority, Delta FAs twice rejected that opportunity - choosing instead to accept whatever was granted by their executives. To the contrary, NWA FAs have over 40 years of personal and professional responsibility for their worklives. We have voted 6 times in the past 40 years for representation - each time in a landslide of support. In short, NWA FAs have literally 'earned' their protections through sweat and tears. To disadvantage the NWA FAs with their hard fought protections is to completely undermine the collective bargaining rights that Congress mandated in the passage of the Railway Labor Act (1926). In fact, in 2007, Delta lobbyists fought against the Omni-bus seniority protections that allow Delta FAs to be here today -- and in fact, Delta stated that the issue of seniority protection should not be mandated under the law, because the issue is a proper subject matter for 'collective bargaining'. Well, we agree with them -- and as such, Delta FAs -- choosing to allow their executives to speak for them -- should recognize that when others speak for you, you must live with the choices and speeches that are made on your behalf...."

That's just an example of what I would write in an opening statement.

I can't speak to the W2 article -- I didn't write it...but it is not nearly as misleading as the stuff that Delta has put out.
 
Bulldog63:

I can't speak to the W2 article -- I didn't write it...but it is not nearly as misleading as the stuff that Delta has put out.


It was written under the AFA banner. AFA doesn't edit their content for truth? What your saying is
"A little misleading is ok?" because you feel Delta is doing it as well.
 
It is amusing how AFA will accuse DL of not telling the truth, well there have been several issues where AFA has lied and misrepresented or twisted the facts, why is that o.k.? I have yet to see anything from AFA regarding the W2 issue, what the equity payment consisted of (not all cash), how DL has a 401K match and NW does not, etc.

The article you mention was written by a DELTA F/A activist. The campaign has a communications team made up of volunteer DELTA FAs. If you have questions and concerns about it, I suggest you email her.
 
Can someone explain this? It doesn't sound like DOH is written in stone here.

Flight Attendant System Seniority List - Other
In the event Northwest Airlines, Inc. purchases, absorbs or merges with another airline, or disposes of its
operations as a whole, the Flight Attendant System Seniority List of Northwest Airlines, Inc. and of the other
company or companies involved, shall at such time be determined by agreement between the representatives
of the respective Flight Attendant groups involved, and the Company's recommendations.

Found here:

Section 20 b 3 link


The scenerio that you explained is would take place (from what I understand) if NWA merges with a non AFA carrier. However if we become AFA before the merger then it is automatically DOH. That is what this entire thread is about.