Airbus Vs. Boeing

[UAL_TECH]

Eric,

Is this a 'UAL' related topic?

😛 UT

 

[JungleClone]

First off, you'll find no bigger Boeing fan than me. I have always and will continue to be a strong Boeing advocate. That being said, Boeing has nobody to blame for their commerical aircraft division predicament but themselves. Their arrogance and shoddy leadership in the mid-to-late 90's is what got them where they are now. Boeing Corporate was too interested in stock buybacks and acquisitions than they were in re-investment in new technology to keep them on the cutting edge. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, the parallels with United are striking, no?

After Boeing's folly with the Sonic Loser, errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, Cruiser, they came to the realization that they needed a new airframe if they were going to remain in this business. And so, arguably the future of their commercial aircraft division rests in the hands of the 7E7. Make no mistake about it, Airbus has thrown down the gauntlet. Their mission is to kill Boeing for good. The knock on Airbus for years was that they build a decent airframe but they do a lousy job of supporting it in the field. That is clearly no longer the case. The lengths they have come to improve their product and support are amazing.

The EADS coalition will NEVER let Airbus fail. They'll pump Euros into the business until the cows come home if that's what it takes. Boeing cannot afford more managment mis-steps. If they don't hit a home run with the 7E7, then barring a government bailout, the commercial aircraft division is doomed. Let's remember that it's vogue to be anti-American these days. So I don't think too many foreign tears would be shed if Boeing went by the wayside. Let that be Boeing Senior Management's motivation to run a tighter ship into the future.

 

[TechBoy]

Tech:"I don't think that A330/340 stacks up to 777" What are your specifics? I personally don't know 1 human being that would perfer to be sandwhiched in a ctr. (777)seat by choice, having to step over and disturb two pax vs. 1. Moreover, there is alot to be said for the most quiet (330/340) widebody flying. Now, I can speak from the position of loving both manufacturers ( a/c of preference 747-400) still the King in my eyes. The 777 is a great a/c ...it just does not stack up to 330/340 flight experience from a coach pax perspective. Let's face it, the forward cabin is fantastic on both the 777/ 330-340. Once again, I'll take the Upper Deck on a 400, thank you very much. The 7e7 has the potentional to leave'em all in the dust INCLUDING the A350, if Boeing is innovative enough. Why did they not demand exclusivity for the engine technology? Can they? If Boeing follows through with the cabin(revolutionary) plans for the 7e7 it will be very difficult for Airbus to compete outside of range and payload. Airbus is at a 2 year (market delivery) disadvantage. I am going on record in predicting that Northwest will go with the 7e7.

[post="227950"][/post]​

NxN, I've flown both in front and back many times. I like the width of the 777 and smoother ride. I also don't believe the Airbus marketing that 330/340 is quieter. I think 777 is very slightly quieter. As for the middle seat, I never sit in one. And for those who do, I doubt that the middle seats on the 330/340 are any better than the middle ones on the 777. In some cases, there are advantages to the 2-5-2 seating. On a MUC-IAD recently, most of the "5" section of seats only had 3 people in them so that everyone had an empty seat next to them. Couldn't do that on an Airbus, so it cuts both ways. Don't get me wrong, I think 330/340 is a perfectly fine plane. I just prefer 777.

 

[TechBoy]

Techboy - I believe where the question arises is in what you catagorize as an "unfair subsidy." My response is "by what defintion and from whom?" It is certainly not unfair as viewed from a nation which by its own self-determination (not trying to be wordy here but it is the only phrase that encompases the full meaning) decides to chart an economic course. Unfair if have have to compete with this entity? Perhaps, and that is why I brought this out for dicsussion as it is "unfair" according to what standard? Did Providence himself speak and thus it was? Not to be facetious, but I do stumble over this press.

To all: Does LH even still have A300s? They used to (and I believe still do on occasion) ply the LHR-FRA route with the A310. Just was confused by the reference to the 300.

[post="228126"][/post]​

LH definitely still flies A300s. I just took one last week FRA-TXL.

I guess a subsidy is in the eye of the beholder. A free marketer would call any subsidy unfair. The EU tends to see these things in shades of grey, i.e., your subsidy is unfair and my subsidy is good policy. I just think that the EU should be careful not to back the US into a corner in which it will retaliate in a way that is bad for everybody. A "little subsidy" is like a little nuclear war -- it rarely works that way.

 

[Dizel8]

"So I don't think too many foreign tears would be shed if Boeing went by the wayside".

Not so sure if that is true, after all, even AirFrance flies Boeings.

We need Boeing, Airbus, Embraer and Bombardier, if not more. It keeps price lower due to competetion and it increase innovation with new airplanes.

Who knows, perhaps one day we get another SST, this time economically feasible.

 

[Ukridge]

Techboy - I should have looked at this link before I asked. You are correct. It seems as if LH no longer has the 310s. Of course it may be that they never even had the 310s and they were the 300s all along.

http://konzern.lufthansa.com/de/html/ueber...otte/index.html

Nice layout of the LH fleet.


Someone may know.... Did Airbus not recently state that their order books for the 319/320 were quite full for some time? I ask this beause it was mentioned in this thread that Airbus may take an interest in United's BK exit. If it were to provide narrow-body aircraft, I would think this would be a challange if all the orders already have names attached. Also, what retalitory measures could the U.S. take that would hurt Airbus? I do not mean this in a defense of Airbus, but rather that I simply do not know. It seems that EADS/Airbus has been rather nimble in spreading their business around the globe and could very well be "insulated" from any action the U.S. government could take. Now however, if a U.S. government spokesman were to "deplore in the strongest possible terms the actions of EADS," then possibly the Continentals could be brougt to heel.