Airline Lobbying

[Bob Owens]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 7:28:18 PM RV4 wrote:

I wasn't saying a damn thing Bob!

I was simply posting information about the John Birch Society because someone else mentioned this group in a post. I had not a cllue about the society so I went to the site and found what I posted. I concluded that maybe others might not know of the society also, so I posted INFORMATION not a position paper.

Why is it than when someone post information, you conlcude that is some form of political stance?

In your mind, it must be a crime to research and post information. No wonder the TWU is full of so many uninformed sheep. Those that wish to inform others are constantly badgered and attacked for doing so, thus we have very uninformed members.

Congratulations on your personal contribution to the uninformed.



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[/blockquote]

A crime? No just an opportunity to Capital-ize upon. Isnt that what you do? Attacked? Whaaa. Ever hear the line about glass houses? Quit whining, you are starting to sound like one of them Liberals!

 

[RV4]

I wasn't saying a damn thing Bob![BR][BR]I was simply posting information about the John Birch Society because someone else mentioned this group in a post. I had not a clue about the society so I went to the site and found what I posted. I concluded that maybe others might not know of the society also, so I posted INFORMATION not a position paper.[BR][BR]Why is it than when someone post information, you conlcude that is some form of political stance?[BR][BR]In your mind, it must be a crime to research and post information. No wonder the TWU is full of so many uninformed sheep. Those that wish to inform others are constantly badgered and attacked for doing so, thus we have very uninformed members.[BR][BR]Congratulations on your personal contribution to the uninformed.[BR][BR][BR][BR]

 

[Bob Owens]

Well, he speaks for Local 562. The papers may have elevated his position and added an error here and there but I beleive he was clear when he told them who he was and how we felt. 20 years of concessions is enough.

 

[RV4]

Since we are off topic, I will start a new thread.[BR][BR]Wow, Bob, New Topics are easy, you should try it sometime.

 

[RV4]

[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/27/2003 710 PM Bob Owens wrote: [BR][BR]Well, he speaks for Local 562. The papers may have elevated his position and added an error here and there but I beleive he was clear when he told them who he was and how we felt. 20 years of concessions is enough.----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Did you guys already vote on the concessions there at Local 562?[BR][BR]If not, how does he speak for them?[BR][BR]We are still waiting on the TWU Presidents Council here in Tulsa to see if we even vote.

 

[RV4]

I see your Local President is now the TWU spokesperson.[BR][BR][A href="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/Business/91FDDD4D21045DF686256CB90017300B?OpenDocument&Headline=American+Airlines+union+says+it+already+has+given+at+the+offi
e+-+for+20+years" target=_parent]http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/Business/91FDDD4D21045DF686256CB90017300B?OpenDocument&Headline=American+Airlines+union+says+it+already+has+given+at+the+offi
e+-+for+20+years[/A][BR]

 

[Bob Owens]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 7:57:43 PM Buck wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 710 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Well, he speaks for Local 562. The papers may have elevated his position and added an error here and there but I beleive he was clear when he told them who he was and how we felt. 20 years of concessions is enough.
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[/blockquote]
He may speak for Local 562 and yes 20 years of concessions are enough. But who controls the TWU?
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[/blockquote]

OK, I'll bite. Who?

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 8:03:23 PM Bob Owens wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 7:57:43 PM Buck wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 710 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Well, he speaks for Local 562. The papers may have elevated his position and added an error here and there but I beleive he was clear when he told them who he was and how we felt. 20 years of concessions is enough.
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[/blockquote]
He may speak for Local 562 and yes 20 years of concessions are enough. But who controls the TWU?
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[/blockquote]

OK, I'll bite. Who?

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[/blockquote]
Nothing to bite on Bob? It is a question. I am asking you if Local 562 speaks for the ATD or the International? How much influence does your local have during a Local 514 rollcall vote (Burchette style)? What strentgh does the mechanic have when they are out voted by Fleet Service? Which is more important mechanic wages and benefits or Fleet Service numbers?

 

[RV4]

Does Hillary Clinton also speak for those in New York?

 

[RV4]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/27/2003 7:34:13 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]A crime? No just an opportunity to Capital-ize upon. Attacked? Whaaa. Quit whining, you are starting to sound like one of them Liberals![BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Another superior posting by Lord Bob.[BR][BR]You must have spent the weekend at your local playground.[/P]

 

[Bob Owens]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 7:35:45 PM RV4 wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 1/27/2003 7:34:13 PM Bob Owens wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]

A crime? No just an opportunity to Capital-ize upon. Attacked? Whaaa. Quit whining, you are starting to sound like one of them Liberals!
[/BLOCKQUOTE]


[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]


Another superior posting by Lord Bob.

You must have spent the weekend at your local playground.[/P]
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[/blockquote]

Not much different than here with you.

 

[Bob Owens]

[blockquote]
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On 1/26/2003 10:24:14 PM flyhigh wrote:

...nor has it all been blamed on labor. $4 billion in cuts are needed...$2 billion has been cut from other areas, but some of it has to come from labor. As you quote, it's not ALL labors fault, but some of it is. More importantly...labor is THE MOST CONTROLABLE COST. The price of fuel is relatively controlable. Airplane leases are somewhat controlable. Facilaties are basically not controlable. What you guys fail to recognize is that the size of the revenue pie has shrunk dramatically and at the same time, the cost pie INCREASED dramatically. As a result, you have to be a part of bridging that gap!

As for the size of the pie changing...from what I remember, money changed, but other parts did as well thereby allowing the money part to grow through increased efficiencies. At what point are people going to accept the reality that it isn't fair, the company doesn't owe you, and they're not you're best friend. They pay you...if it doesn't work for you...move on to those wonderful high paying jobs I keep hearing mechanics talk about being out there.
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[/blockquote]

If you feel it is partly labors fault, be more specific. Tell us specifically how labor, in my case, mechanics labor, is at fault. Could it be that (unlike the most of the rest of the population that has seen a "real" increase in wages of 10% since 1990) mechanics have seen a "real" increase in wages (not counting losses in benifits) of less than 1% since 1978? No, not really because this less than 1% increase came while increasing productivity by at least 30% since 1985. Why should mechanics accept any blame for an industry that finds itself hurting when wages have not really increased and productivity has? What we need to do is look at those who have seen huge "real" increases. Only one group fits that description, the executives. Thier compensation has outpaced inflation by a wide margin, does the performance of the company justify such compensation? Workers supposedly get paid for thier performance based on productivity, since that is all they can partially control, executives supposedly get paid for the performance of the company, because that is what they control. Well if productivity is increasing without any, or much of an increase in real wages but the company is not making profits then it seems that the wrong people have been getting raises now doesnt it?

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 710 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Well, he speaks for Local 562. The papers may have elevated his position and added an error here and there but I beleive he was clear when he told them who he was and how we felt. 20 years of concessions is enough.
----------------
[/blockquote]
He may speak for Local 562 and yes 20 years of concessions are enough. But who controls the TWU?

 

[RV4]

Something wrong with Software???

USAviation is having script problems? Or is my computer?

 

[Bob Owens]

[Blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 8:07:23 PM Buck wrote:

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[/blockquote]
Nothing to bite on Bob? It is a question. I am asking you if Local 562 speaks for the ATD or the International? How much influence does your local have during a Local 514 rollcall vote (Burchette style)? What strentgh does the mechanic have when they are out voted by Fleet Service? Which is more important mechanic wages and benefits or Fleet Service numbers?
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[/blockquote]

Local 562 speaks for its members, PERIOD. I feel that the roll call vote (which is really a proxy vote) is illegal. It defeats the purpose of having a Presidents council, which I am assuming is supposed to be modeled on our Senate. Every president should have one vote at these councils however to preserve the rights of the larger locals a 35% vote of the council should be able to force a membership vote on an issue of broad importance. Proxy votes should not be legal unless the President actually receives authorization to cast votes in behalf of each member. In other words Burchette only received around three thousand votes yet he has the right to proxy vote for 7000 members. Those 4000 members may not be in favor of what he is voting on.

To blame fleet service for our problems is a cop out. The fact is I would trust Fleet service guys from New York before I would trust Overhaul mechanics in Tulsa to take a stand. When we separated from Fleet in 95 the maint contract was ratified while fleet was rejected thanks to Tulsa. Contract after contract Tulsa has been the deciding factor in ratifying concessionary contracts. Tulsa is a Maint majority and controlled local. If you get AMFA your leaders and members would still be the same people. Who controls the TWU? Well that depends upon what level of the organization you are talking about. At the local level, 514 is controlled by maint, as is 562. However the mechanics in 562 are very different than those in 514, in fact we have more in common with members of Local 501 than 514. We both have to learn to survive in a high cost of living area. Thier struggle is a result of having chosen a career with a relatively low skill level. People with mechanics skill level live pretty well in NY, Aircraft mechanics being the exception, our drawback is that our rates are not tied to the local market rate for our skills but to the market rate in Tulsa. Tulsa has insisted that they get whatever we get even though locally this puts them far above the market rate. The 4000 line mechanics are the leverage that keeps the Tulsa workers above the market rate. Mechanics dont carry the burden of fleet service, we carry the burden of Tulsa. Sooner or later Tulsa has to realize that they can not expect to earn the same rates as a mechanic in a high cost area. For the airlines, everything except labor, costs more on the coasts. But that is where the company makes its money. The company is going to go for pay cuts, we know that Tulsa will vote yes but if the line guys are forced to take pay cuts morale and productivity will plummet. Right now the company is enjoying very high productivity, maint costs despite the raise should be around the same or less than it was before the raise because of the elimination of OT. This is only possible because the workers are committed to keeping things moving. A pay cut will destroy this commitment as workers realize that in order to make up for what they are giving up they need to work more hours. This will cancel out any gains made by cuts. Its clear that the lines can not take the cuts. If this does come to a vote the votes should be separate between the lines and overhaul. This way if Tulsa elects to give up some of their pay to put them more in line with local market rates it wont drag us down to intolerable levels. Conducting things this way will allow the company to put the money where it needs to be. The company does not need $35/hr mechanics in Tulsa Overhaul, it needs them to keep the planes in operation where minutes count not days. It needs to have motivated, committed workers where the customers are to keep things moving and on time. That is one of the ways that AA can use SWA's business plan to restore the company to profitability.