All unions must eventually support ALPA

[oldiebutgoody]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 11:59:29 AM PITbull wrote:

Retread,

Correction above, F/As did not bring coffee to the IAM during 1992 strike, we stood with them and supported them. It took a court order to have us stop. Do not dismiss this as if it were nothing and no big deal.
----------------
[/blockquote]
PITbull,
Here is what I remember. There WERE some F/As that tried to walk (just like some pilots did), but it WAS NOT sanctioned by the AFA. The company went to court, which agreed that the F/As COULD NOT LEGALLY support the IAM strike. That's why they went back to work. To my knowledge there was no "court order", since there was no law allowing them to strike in the first place. Once it was pointed out that large numbers could be fired they went back, just like nothing had happened. That's what I remember, and I don't forget much!

 

[Braveheart]

Oldiebutgoody:

Apparently you forgot something vitally important, a record of authenticity and accuracy. An arbitrator, ruling AFA ""CAN"" honor picket lines of other employee groups at US Airways.

I am sure it is not the age factor. Those associated with Seigel would love to have confussion so emulation remains impossible amongst the troops.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 1:39:13 PM tug_slug wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 1:02:49 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:

PITbull,
Here is what I remember. There WERE some F/As that tried to walk (just like some pilots did), but it WAS NOT sanctioned by the AFA. The company went to court, which agreed that the F/As COULD NOT LEGALLY support the IAM strike. That's why they went back to work. To my knowledge there was no "court order", since there was no law allowing them to strike in the first place. Once it was pointed out that large numbers could be fired they went back, just like nothing had happened. That's what I remember, and I don't forget much!
----------------

[/blockquote]
http://www.afausairways.org/IAMQA.html

What happened during the 1992 IAM strike?


In 1992, the US Airways AFA MEC voted to support the IAM strike. Our support included honoring the IAM's picket lines. When flight attendants struck in sympathy, the company went to court and argued that the AFA US Airways contract prohibited flight attendants from engaging in a sympathy strike. According to the company, the sympathy strike raised a contractual dispute that had to be decided in arbitration before the system board.
The court agreed, the parties were ordered to resolve the dispute in arbitration, and the flight attendants were ordered back to work pending arbitration. The IAM strike ended before the issue was arbitrated, but AFA decided to continue the arbitration, since the union would likely face a similar situation in the future.
The arbitrator ruled that the AFA US Airways contract does not prohibit the flight attendants from honoring the picket lines of other employee groups at US Airways. Therefore, flight attendants can legally honor the IAM picket lines without the threat of an injunction.
Again, the MEC will discuss the possibility of supporting the IAM's strike, and vote on that possibility once the strike's begun. If the MEC does vote to support the IAM's strike this time US Airways cannot stop us.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Tug,

Thanks, you beat me to the punch!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 1:39:13 PM tug_slug wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 1:02:49 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:

PITbull,
Here is what I remember. There WERE some F/As that tried to walk (just like some pilots did), but it WAS NOT sanctioned by the AFA. The company went to court, which agreed that the F/As COULD NOT LEGALLY support the IAM strike. That's why they went back to work. To my knowledge there was no "court order", since there was no law allowing them to strike in the first place. Once it was pointed out that large numbers could be fired they went back, just like nothing had happened. That's what I remember, and I don't forget much!
----------------

[/blockquote]
http://www.afausairways.org/IAMQA.html

What happened during the 1992 IAM strike?


In 1992, the US Airways AFA MEC voted to support the IAM strike. Our support included honoring the IAM's picket lines. When flight attendants struck in sympathy, the company went to court and argued that the AFA US Airways contract prohibited flight attendants from engaging in a sympathy strike. According to the company, the sympathy strike raised a contractual dispute that had to be decided in arbitration before the system board.
The court agreed, the parties were ordered to resolve the dispute in arbitration, and the flight attendants were ordered back to work pending arbitration. The IAM strike ended before the issue was arbitrated, but AFA decided to continue the arbitration, since the union would likely face a similar situation in the future.
The arbitrator ruled that the AFA US Airways contract does not prohibit the flight attendants from honoring the picket lines of other employee groups at US Airways. Therefore, flight attendants can legally honor the IAM picket lines without the threat of an injunction.
Again, the MEC will discuss the possibility of supporting the IAM's strike, and vote on that possibility once the strike's begun. If the MEC does vote to support the IAM's strike this time US Airways cannot stop us.

----------------
[/blockquote]
Thanks for setting me straight then. All I remember of that morning was that when two of four flight attendants on my flight refused to board the plane, they were instructed to leave their IDs with the gate agent, as they would not need them any more. They quickly changed their tune, and the rest of the trip went without a hitch (except, of course, for the reduced IAM presence). ALPA was not involved because they had already signed on for some serious concessions.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 3:09:03 PM PineyBob wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/8/2003 12:24:36 PM autofixer wrote:
Sometimes there is more honor in death than in victory, i.e., the charge of the "light brigade."
----------------
[/blockquote]

Interesting point! I am more of a Patton guy myself who in the opening of the movie said,

"No Son of a B*tch ever did his country any good by going out and dieing for it! The object is to make the other Son Of A B*tch die for his!"

But your point regarding the Charge of The Light Brigade is somewhat of an anachronistic view of honor. Teddy Roosevelt was the last "Man of Honor" in a position of power IMHO. Find me one such leader in the airline industry or Fortune 500 for that matter.

Remember in the era of "Men of Honor", women were viewed as property, never mind being allowed to vote. Union organizers were summarily shot. Workers worked 6 12 to 16 hour days and paid in company script in many cases.

So while your point regarding honor is valid in some ways it seems somewhat dated.
----------------
[/blockquote

Piney,

Honor outdated????

Valor is outdated, because of those folks who live by the dollar and are frightened to death of "change". They call folks like unionist Poli or Charley bryan as foolish or stupid, and refuse to see them any other way. Because if they looked at them as brave, then they would have to look at themselves in the mirror and recognize what "cowardly" looks like. Pretty stark, wouldn't you say?

Nobleness and honor is as outdated as Men who use to buy the female dinner or hold a door open in kind. Or, someone who dare to challenge the norm behavior in the 60s where Blacks could not use white bathrooms or eat in the same restaurants or join their country clubs. Those who challenged for the rights of women to vote or the "right to choose". Or Rosa Parks who refused to go to the back of the bus. Easy for us to say, ahhh., let the other guy do it. Or Martin Luther King, who gave his life for change.Yes, we who enjoy those freedoms today on the backs of those who challenged, dare to reticule those who are willing to take a stand for what they believe is right.

Everyone sitting there thinking about "hey, but what about me"? What will happen to me, me, me. How will this effect me?

Sorry, Pilots have every damn right to PROTEST here. Those who lost their pensions in 1992, had every right to protest, form unions etc, but chose not to go through the effort. I'll be damnd if I am going to sit here in critisize those who dare to take that challenge.It's pilots that usually make that difference. If they are able to make change...makes it all the easier for us when it comes rolling around at our doors....don't be fooled and think your safe, when were we ever safe?

 

[retread]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 11:59:29 AM PITbull wrote:

Retread,

Correction above, F/As did not bring coffee to the IAM during 1992 strike, we stood with them and supported them. It took a court order to have us stop. Do not dismiss this as if it were nothing and no big deal.
----------------
[/blockquote]

You are correct, I forgot about that. However, I do remember most F/As that I flew with were not going to strike. I also remember the thugs destroying aircraft and property. We are in this by ourselves as usual, never expected it any other way. It will be interesting to see how the tone will change when the company comes after the other groups again. The coffee post was in response to Biffs comment about a FA bringing coffee. This will be my last post on this topic. Biff, go ahead and SCAB, I could care less.

 

[PITbull]

Hell Piney,

I figured you'd say I made your argument. When I was writing it, I thought..."I have a feeling I'm expanding on his thought".

Keep in mind, not many pilots post on this board. Those who you hear from are a small %. From flying with the pilot group for many years; they are very noble men and woman. However their leadership has alot to be desired. If you noticed roundd #2 negotiations was not voted on by the ALPA membership; only by their base representatives. For all of us, to negotiate major, unprecidented concessions, in a timeline never done in our union history, made it extremely difficult to prepare ourselves, and come out of the cocoon we had been in for so many years. We had never had to deal with "union busters". Next time, you will see a very wise, resistant,well prepared, organized types of union groups.

 

[sabre]

you people are lacking intelligence. I started a thread that puts out a position that supports the interest of mechanics and others. But because it supports pilots this thread has become a racist and hate thread of which I must apologize for starting.
Forget '92 people and WAKE UP TO THE WORLD OF TODAY.


love

 

[sdavis29]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 841 AM oldiebutgoody wrote:

----------------
[/blockquote]
TWU Local 553 vs. Eastern Airlines/
Frank Lorenzo: 1989


Flight attendants who were members of Transport Workers Union Local 553, headed by Mary Jane Barry, joined with members of the Air Line Pilots Association in refusing to cross picket lines of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. The IAM maintenance and ground crew members were on strike against Eastern Airlines and its notorious owner, Frank Lorenzo.


----------------
[/blockquote]
And they ALL got fired.
----------------
[/blockquote]
question then
if they all got fired..who worked the flts when ea started flying again?

[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/10.gif']

 

[AP Tech]

I also remember the thugs destroying aircraft and property.
----------------
[/blockquote]
"Thugs", "destroying aircraft and property", Now I am starting to take this personal! I was their during the strike of 92, and I don't recall destroying ANY aircraft or property. This post is bringing back some not so fond memories! I am a good mechanic and take my profession seriously!

 

[Meriel]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 1037 PM sabre wrote:

... But because it supports pilots this thread has become a racist and hate thread of which I must apologize for starting.
----------------
[/blockquote]

While I'll agree there seems to be a lot of unpleasantness, if not downright dislike, I don't seen any "racism". Maybe I missed it where someone made a negative comment about being black or white or asian or some other color?

 

[pitguy]

oldiebutgoody stated:

"Thanks for setting me straight then. All I remember of that morning was....."


(((I just like seeing it in print.)))

Live to fight another day.

 

[A320 Driver]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 1037 PM sabre wrote:

you people are lacking intelligence. I started a thread that puts out a position that supports the interest of mechanics and others. But because it supports pilots this thread has become a racist and hate thread of which I must apologize for starting.
Forget '92 people and WAKE UP TO THE WORLD OF TODAY.


love
----------------
[/blockquote]




Somtimes things go wrong even when you have the purest of intentions. One thing this thread has shown is the bitterness one employee group harbors for another. We will never solve those problems or bury the hard feelings here on this board. I am sorry for ever responding to ANY of it and for my part I deeply apologize to all.

This thread is a testimony to what's wrong with our company and our world. Every negative thought and emotion has been displayed here. Don't blame yourself Sabre, it's just who we are as people.

This is my final post. Best wishes to all.

A320 Driver

 

[PITbull]

A320,

Not everyone harbors resentment. In fact, very few. We are all just sharing opinions, and getting to understand others perspective.

Pilots are in a predicament. It will resolve and pilots DO have support.

The folks on this board will support you if the pilots request it.

 

[BottomFeeder]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/10/2003 7:23:05 AM A320 Driver wrote:

This thread is a testimony to what's wrong with our company and our world. Every negative thought and emotion has been displayed here. Don't blame yourself Sabre, it's just who we are as people.

This is my final post. Best wishes to all.

A320 Driver

----------------
[/blockquote]


A320 Driver,

I agree, I think it is time for me to go as well.

It has been a very interesting and now I have the view from the other side of the table. Thanks to all for their toughts and feelings.

Good Luck to Us All!

Over and Out!!

PS. BIFFE, No hard feelings. I hope we can move on and heal this company. Someday I'll buy you a beer and toast "Here's to your health"