Phoenix
Veteran
jack mama said:
No. No. No. No denial. It is called apathy, or indifference. Just do it already.
Alpa Mec Meeting Update
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
No. No. No. No denial. It is called apathy, or indifference. Just do it already.
ClueByFour
Veteran
FM2436 said:
Yeah, but this guy has multiple chances to be overturned on appeal, which judges generally don't like, especially with something of this magnitude. And it will be appealed, even if US goes under. Organized labor has too much to lose.
ITRADE
Veteran
ClueByFour said:
Actually he basically has one....the Court of Appeals. SCOTUS doesn't care about Chap 11 cases - no constitutional question, and the appeals courts are very deferential to bankruptcy judges.
ClueByFour
Veteran
ITRADE said:
I think that the 9 wise men might take something like this, if for nother other reason to further clarify what takes precedence in the event of a 1113c abrogation and subsequent self-help scenarios. The "BK code" versus RLA questions might interest the court of appeals to hear something like this to clarify the muddy point in the law.
My interest in this is the same as my interest in any airline considering giving up the leverage it took many people many years to build. USA320 doesn't want to acknowledge his debt to the many that have come before him and feel he is well within his rights to sign a lousy agreement regardless of how it impacts the rest of the industry. The same lousy agreement the desperate pilots at US sign will be slid under the nose of every ALPA pilot in this country, sooner or later.
If scabbing is morally wrong because it allows one pilot to reap a windfall at the expense of one defending his profession, then signing this T/A would be tantamount to scabbing against the entire union. USA320 says that there are US pilots who would sue the RC4 for the lost millions that delaying a vote cost. Why can't DAL or UAL or NWA pilots sue the US MEC under the same pretext if they puts their sgnature on an agreement that ultimately costs those pilots billions in concessions to keep up with the race to the bottom? Of course they can't, but the point is it is morally wrong to take a lousy deal when your actions affect thousands beyond yourself.
USAirways says without an agreement or court order to lower costs they will have to liquidate by February. With the agreements they're good until at least the 3rd week in March.
If scabbing is morally wrong because it allows one pilot to reap a windfall at the expense of one defending his profession, then signing this T/A would be tantamount to scabbing against the entire union. USA320 says that there are US pilots who would sue the RC4 for the lost millions that delaying a vote cost. Why can't DAL or UAL or NWA pilots sue the US MEC under the same pretext if they puts their sgnature on an agreement that ultimately costs those pilots billions in concessions to keep up with the race to the bottom? Of course they can't, but the point is it is morally wrong to take a lousy deal when your actions affect thousands beyond yourself.
USAirways says without an agreement or court order to lower costs they will have to liquidate by February. With the agreements they're good until at least the 3rd week in March.
Why is it so wrong to demand that others commit to financing before the pilots sign off on concessions? Who has said that they will provide additional money to USAir? Isn't that the mark of a watertight transformation plan, one that employees would be willing to participate in?
traderjake
Veteran
"USA320 doesn't want to acknowledge his debt to the many that have come before him and feel he is well within his rights to sign a lousy agreement regardless of how it impacts the rest of the industry."
I owe nothing to the ALPA pilots who came before me. The only thing they ever did for me was negotiate a B scale. Any sacrifice they made was for their own personal benefit.
Fight your own battles. I'm not putting my company out of business so you don't have to take a pay cut.
I owe nothing to the ALPA pilots who came before me. The only thing they ever did for me was negotiate a B scale. Any sacrifice they made was for their own personal benefit.
Fight your own battles. I'm not putting my company out of business so you don't have to take a pay cut.
PITbull
Veteran
traderjake said:
And I'm not going to accept wages that impoverish us just so YOU can have your job. And I won't change my vote that throws me out the door, but keeps the likes of your sorry butt.
Get a real life and stop riding on someone elses back.
ITRADE said:
The Fourth Circuit (based in Richmond) is probably the most pro-business CoA circuit in the nation. I don't have a dog in this fight, other than a favorite airline, but I'm pretty expert in the ways of the court and I can tell you that I wouldn't look for help from that court if I were a union rep. I also find it unlikely that it would taken up by the big guys, but one never knows what will strike their fancy.
ITRADE
Veteran
#1 its 7 wise men and 2 wise women.ClueByFour said:
#2 RLA v. Chap. 11 is not really a constitutional question. SCOTUS doesn't take garden variety cases that don't involve questions of constitutional law. Even if it did, the SCOTUS usually takes questions only where there is a circuit split (i.e., the 9th circuit says saying the pledge of allegiance is unconstitutional, but the 5th circuit does not).
BTW, they denied about 8,000 petitions for certioari this past week. US would be but one more.
PITbull said:
Very nice catch, PB, you beat me to the post.
TJ, you might want to keep your position in mind if/when a vote comes to IAM/AFA/CWA.
They will be thinking, I don't owe the company an exit from BK, with my entry into BK.
traderjake
Veteran
PITbull said:
We'll see how many Flight Attendants agree with you.
I suspect the majority will choose a 15% or 23% paycut to 100%.
Translation:traderjake said:
"The cork in the bottom of this dingy is worth some money and I'm takin' it!"
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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traderjake said:
I was never a fan of the B scale, opposed it actually. But you willingly accepted the job under those conditions. And you're apparently willing to accept a "permanent" B scale by accepting this contract. So either stop complaining or vote No.
By my count, we pilots have "saved the airline" 4 or 5 times already. I guess U is the anti-matter version of a cat - 9 deaths. Can we stop "saving" this company once all 9 have been used up?
Jim
