Mec Code-a-phone Update

[bluetoad]

If past experience is any indicator, the pilots of US Airways will ratify this POS contract. I cannot think of one time they have stood up againsts management as a collective group. Most are scared that they cannot survive on their own intellegence and detrmination. You do not become an major airline pilot without skill, determination, and a can do attitude. The problem is, once became a "success", you lost most of the attributes that drove you toward your lofty goal in the first place. As during the last round, pilots voted for the reduction in pay and retirement. No one took it from them, they just gave it away, justifying it by telling themselves it is better to live an fight for it another day. Well the other day has arrived and now it looks like they will give it away again without even challenging it. Those like 320 are scared and are spreading fear of the unknown. You could lose with the judge, but you will lose for sure, and never get back something you just give it away. It is easy to capitulate, it is hard to fight and possibly lose. In the end you have to decided, is this contract what I have worked my entire life for? Is this all I think I am worth?
I dont have a vote, I was already furloughed. Making more now than I ever did as a US Air pilot. Your world will not end if you vote no. US Airways may not end if you vote no. The thing is you just dont know what is going to happen. Isnt that why you became a pilot in the first place? To face the unknown, pit your skills against anything that mother nature and machine could throw at you? That is when a pilot is at his or her best. Dont be afraid, rely on your abilities and kick some ass. You might find that you will win not only your self respect, you will you might save the profession we all love.
God Bless

 

[EyeInTheSky]

bluetoad, you might be right. Talked to a few guys that drank the Glanzer juice at the ALPA meeting. As for me, I am still in my early 40's and I am working like hell to get away from these weakest links. I am lucky, like you, I will survive. Unfortunately, a lot of people won't ever fly again after US Airways and they know it, that's why you see desparate tactics. You've paid the ultimate sacrafice with a furlough; I am in the group of guys who are continually getting screwed at this airline. I've made the conscious decision to leave when the right opportunity arises. I believe the airline won't make it... period. I'd have more faith if management proved they actually know how to run an airline. I am amazed it's gone on as long as it has. And, I am amazed that the pilot group shows enormous weakness. I won't vote for this TA it's junk and it take the profession to a new low. All I have to say is go IAM & AFA! You guys stand up and fight; somebody has to say stop the mis-management madness.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Lets remember who apparently, either accidently or intensionally, distribute false and misleading information to the Pilot's Union rank and file members. It wasn't management, it was the Pilot's Union elected representative(s). From a Union's perspective, isn't it always management who tries to distributes false and misleading information to affect the outcome of a Union vote? Apparently, it has been the actions of the RC4 who have either accidently or intensionally, distributed false and misleading information with the apparent goal to affect the outcome of a Union vote.

Boy-oh-boy, if charges are filed against the RC4 and the outcome is guilt, you'll never see another employee elected Union representative attempt to influence the outcome of any election/vote by accidently or intensionally distributing false and misleading information to their fellow Union brothers and sisters.

[post="188261"][/post]​

Boy this is a new low. I am so embarrassed to share a cockpit with some of you a holes.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

We agree on little but here Sir we have found common ground. It is stupid and a waste of time and money.

Let's say the RC4 are Stone Cold Guilty of everything, what is the likelyhood that ANYONE would collect nickel one?

As for unions tarnishing their images, I think it's safe to say that ship sailed. With single digits in the private sector in terms of membership I think the public has rendered the verdict on organized labor.

As for the pilots having to pay to cover the legal fees. What does it accomplish? If nothing good will come of such actions, why bother?

[post="188284"][/post]​

Piney, who knew? ALPA is just one f'd up dysfunctional mess thanks to guys like _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ t.

 

[UseYourHead]

No PitBull,

This is about, SURVIVAL plain and simple. Do you want to be like Eastern and show the company and the world how tough you are, or be a part of one of the few airlines that have successfully restructured and are making money going forward.

Your ideas mirror EAL, just shut it down right? Well, you are about to see that the majority of pilots have enough brains to make the best tough choice, and do what they can to attempt to survive.

You on the other hand are simply a COWARD, you do not want to be tagged with any consession, so that you can continue to say you voted NO...you probably willl not be furloughed, even though by your and other AFA and Union leaders actions of dragging your feet, you will cause the furloughs of many junior employees...that is very sad.

I'll bet you have never voted yes for any contract...did you vote yes for the concept of parity + 1%? Even though it resulted in raises of 32% over a 2 year period.

Continue to tell everyone how tough you are, you in fact are spineless, and you know your ridiculous and unreasonable postion will not affect you in the end...you will let the judge do it for you...you are not representing you fellow FA's by these types of actions, you are in fact hurting them 10 times worse.

The real issue is what does the actions of the ALPA MEC do do the entire industry and profession with this kind of T/A?....

If the members vote this in....it will be a total defeat to every organized union member in this country and in ur history.

I believe that the court system must be tested. And no one is willing to do this as a collective coallition.

Stupid is' as stupid does....and if we ratify these horrific contracts, we deserve what we get..NOTHING!

And no complaints either...none! Not one word should be utterd by any union member who by majority votes this kind of crap in yet a-gain.

If i were the company, I would have brought all wages to min. wage.. hell you guys would vote that in too.

Suckers.

[post="188188"][/post]​

 

[EyeInTheSky]

No PitBull,

This is about, SURVIVAL plain and simple. Do you want to be like Eastern and show the company and the world how tough you are, or be a part of one of the few airlines that have successfully restructured and are making money going forward.

Your ideas mirror EAL, just shut it down right? Well, you are about to see that the majority of pilots have enough brains to make the best tough choice, and do what they can to attempt to survive.

You on the other hand are simply a COWARD, you do not want to be tagged with any consession, so that you can continue to say you voted NO...you probably willl not be furloughed, even though by your and other AFA and Union leaders actions of dragging your feet, you will cause the furloughs of many junior employees...that is very sad.

I'll bet you have never voted yes for any contract...did you vote yes for the concept of parity + 1%? Even though it resulted in raises of 32% over a 2 year period.

Continue to tell everyone how tough you are, you in fact are spineless, and you know your ridiculous and unreasonable postion will not affect you in the end...you will let the judge do it for you...you are not representing you fellow FA's by these types of actions, you are in fact hurting them 10 times worse.

[post="188447"][/post]​

WTF is wrong with you! Standing up for the rights of workers is not "spineless" it's not standing up for your profession that is spineless. I blame people like you that don't see the big picture. It's not like the employee groups haven't given already. 1.9 Billion; and still the same old crap from management. And, you think management deserves more? God, that's not just spineless; it's dumb.

 

[UseYourHead]

So let me get this straight...we shut this place down and then DAL, UAL, AMR, NWA will all have their problems solved as we will show management who the boss is.

What an upsurd concept...this trend is much bigger than US Airways, we are just a small part of the overall dynamic. All the airline listed above would love it if we do what you advocate...shut it down.

Why don't you start interviewing (if you can even get one), maybe you will find out what a pathatic idea you have about this entire situation.

If you want to fall on your sword next to PITBull, go ahead, but don't think the rest of the employees are stupid enough to do it along side of you.

I won't vote for this TA it's junk and it take the profession to a new low. All I have to say is go IAM & AFA! You guys stand up and fight; somebody has to say stop the mis-management madness.

[post="188426"][/post]​

 

[PITbull]

No PitBull,

This is about, SURVIVAL plain and simple. Do you want to be like Eastern and show the company and the world how tough you are, or be a part of one of the few airlines that have successfully restructured and are making money going forward.

Your ideas mirror EAL, just shut it down right? Well, you are about to see that the majority of pilots have enough brains to make the best tough choice, and do what they can to attempt to survive.

You on the other hand are simply a COWARD, you do not want to be tagged with any consession, so that you can continue to say you voted NO...you probably willl not be furloughed, even though by your and other AFA and Union leaders actions of dragging your feet, you will cause the furloughs of many junior employees...that is very sad.

I'll bet you have never voted yes for any contract...did you vote yes for the concept of parity + 1%? Even though it resulted in raises of 32% over a 2 year period.

Continue to tell everyone how tough you are, you in fact are spineless, and you know your ridiculous and unreasonable postion will not affect you in the end...you will let the judge do it for you...you are not representing you fellow FA's by these types of actions, you are in fact hurting them 10 times worse.

[post="188447"][/post]​

UYH,

Let me tell you what a huge idiot you are....

First off, AFA T/A of May 2000 did NOT, I repeat did not, have pariety. You have AFA confused with your kind of knuckle heads AND YOUR contract.

Second, you are THE captitulating coward and will always find excuses why it is better for you to give in than to fight for the decency of the profession.

YOU ARE CORRCT ON ONE FACT, I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHETHER THE COMPANY SURVIVES IF MY PEOPLE CAN NOT SURVIVE WITH JOBS!!!!!

We don't make $100,0000 plus, like you do. You need your job obviously. But crying to me about my hard stance and the f/as to capitulate to save your seat, won't work with us.

Here is the most fundamental terms that I can express to you...Jerry Glass makes $280,000 per year, his 10% salary cut brings him to a little over $250,000 (qurter of a million dollars). He will have to forfiet perhaps his 6th vehicle.

On the other hand, f/as who are being forced to take either 14.4% or 23% (higher % than managment) will have to forfiet food on the table,and won't be able to pay to put gas in their cars to commute or go to work.

THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE; THAT IS THE FIGHT.

I will NOT apologize to you for my postion. You do NOT pay dues to AFA, and your concentration and focus on the flight attendants will do you no good but make you look like the #### that you are. If I respected you on any level and any of your opinions..you calling me a coward might bother me...but guess what???

UNHAPPY? TOO BAD!

 

[USA320Pilot]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - October 6, 2004

This is Jack Stephan with a US Airways MEC update for Wednesday, October 6th, with two new items.

Item 1. MEC Chairman Bill Pollock will be recording a new Chairman’s message to the pilots this evening. In his message, he will explain that the Company is still seeking 1113(e) interim relief, and that the hearing on the Company’s 1113(e) motion will still be held tomorrow afternoon. However, ALPA has reached an agreement with the Company during the ratification process. If the agreement is ratified and signed by ALPA by October 22, 2004 then the effective date is the earlier of:

-- the date 1113e interim relief is granted by the bankruptcy judge or
-- the date of ratification and signature by ALPA’s President

If interim relief is granted by the Bankruptcy Court and the TA is not ratified by the membership, then interim relief shall be implemented and effective as of the date it was granted by the Court. The company may implement a retroactive pay reduction to the earliest date above.

Captain Pollock also talks about the differences between a ratified TA, and the 1113(e) and the 1113© processes, and explains why a ratified TA is preferable.

You can listen to the Chairman’s message to the pilots by calling the code-a-phone number at 800-FOR-ALPA, or 800-367-2572, and then pressing 2. It will also be posted on the US Airways public and pilots only home page at www.usairwayspilots.org.

USA320Pilot comments: The reason Bill Pollock is going to explain the advantages of ratifying the TA verus the serious problems of a S.1113(e) and S.1113© hearing is because of the purposeful misinformation campaign conducted again by the Philadelphia Reps, which is fraud -- a criminal offense.

A fellow pilot who attended the meeting said, "The CLT Reps then asked Dan Von Bargen who drew up the Council 41 website paper with his signature on it that went out to each of us last week comparing information as to the differences of the 1113e plan, our current plan and the proposed TA.

Dan said he did not know who made that paper up. You could hear a pin drop in that meeting when he said this. Mike Abrams was asked to go through the paper step by step to see how accurate it was.

This is important as to the credibility of our two PHL Reps since disinformation has been their pattern since they came to office.

Mike Abrams, the senior advisor and attorney went through the paper step by step and told the group that not one of the comparisons was accurate and correct. NOT ONE! Dan was asked again, who made up the paper. Dan again said he did not know and blamed it on John Crocker. Crocker was out of the room, so we all waited for him to return. It was like a court room. John came back and Von Bargen quickly whispered what was about to happen. John was asked who wrote this paper sent out by the Council 41 Reps under their names. John said he did not know. The tension in the room as incredible. Again, John was asked the same question. Again, John said he did not know who sent him the paper. He said it was sent to him by "one of his constituents" and he verified the facts and sent it out but he could not identify that person.

Dan and John sent us a paper they said gave us accurate comparisons of our current TA if we vote for it or if we do nothing and allow a 1113e to be filed in court. John and Dan say they don't know who made that paper up nor could they tell us how they came up with the comparisons. What clearly happened was that they were caught in several lies. The paper was a lie. The fact that they didn't know who made the paper they put out under their signatures was a lie and they got caught. I wish every pilot in Philly could have seen these two men squirm as everyone there watched. It is a disgrace and pathetic that two pilots are so intent on pushing their agenda that they would lie to each and every pilot they represent. They are a disgrace and were disgraced last night," he noted.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[UAL_TECH]

OOPS,

Race to The Bottom

<_< UT

 

[PITbull]

USA320,

I'm sorry, you need to check your facts and the law.

First, the judge didn't grant didly squate yet, and you don't have a clue what it will be, and it might not be tomorrow either.

Second, retroactive wage cuts is illegal, and I don't believe the judge will participate in that.

The only way retroactive pay is permitted for contracted employees is IF they negotiate so.

Finally, I think it is disgraceful that ALPA MEC President and his ALPA International cohorts exagerate and place the fear of god in their members. Your Alpa dvisors are lazy, inept and have NO experience in defending the ALPA group.

You and your cronies are cowardly, and first thing on my agenda if I were and MEC member of ALPA is a recall of both Stephan and Bill Pollock.

 

[PITbull]

This TA will be ratified in about two weeks and ALPA will not be sued, just the RC4 and possibly the NC.

Not only will the RC4 be sued, but there could be criminal charges filed and charges filed with the NLRB and the Department of Labor for representation violations.

Moreover, let's not forget that PHL Captain Rep John Crocker is once again attempting to violate the constitution and by-laws in regard to the new recall notice. ALPA vice president of membership services Paul Rice is investigating a complaint and some ALPA members are requesting the Philadelphia LEC be placed into receivership.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="188203"][/post]​

If AFA International puts PHL into "receivership"...A DECERTIFICATION OF ALPA SHOULD COMMENCE BY ALL MEMBERS OF PHL AND ALL OF ALPA ON THIS PROPERTY.

You guys don't deserve to be represented accept by Jerry Glass. You just made him a millionaire.

Good job.

 

[BoeingBoy]

PB,

Not that I disagree with either of the above posts, but the advisors are doing what they usually do. Engaging in classic CYA by advising what the worst possible outcome of any action could be. Of course, this is followed by the "But we can't tell you what to do" line, which is the ultimate in CYA.

After that, the spinmeisters take over....

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - October 6, 2004

purposeful misinformation campaign conducted again by the Philadelphia Reps, which is fraud -- a criminal offense.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="188628"][/post]​

Ok, time to put you money where your keyboard is. Explain to everyone exactly why the "comparison sheet" is misinformation. Or stop the drivel....

Jim

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Or stop the drivel....

[post="188640"][/post]​

It'll be a cold day on the shores of the river Styx before that happens...