LOL....I like doing that! I'm very sad for my former co workers at USAirways Express. I really think this whole story of the last years at USAirways could be made into a movie for kindergarten kids, there's a whole lot of NYAH NYAH!! and throwing dirt at each other. I got out in time it seems, and I hope everyone lands on their feet. When fuel prices go down and the positive cycle returns we'll all be fartin' through silk! USAirways won't be around, but there will be some jobs I'm sure.EyeInTheSky said:You said it; I didn't
[post="178647"][/post]
Alpa Negotiator Speaks Out
- Thread starter us10
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USA320Pilot said:
So basically, you want folks that are seen and not heard; who do as they're told, who are docile, and keep their thoughts to themselves.
Is that not the antithesis of modern cockpit management?
I'll bet you're a BIG hit with your crews.
USA320Pilot said:
USA320,
I hope you actually read this part of your post and take a good look in the mirror. Troblemakers are in the eye of the troubled. Doing such as you hope or suggest in your hopeing is the problem of most unethical business today. Do as I say and not as I do is the mantra. Hope your sword cuts both ways with management also but hmmmm...............?
Don has a great post even though it sounds like it is right out of a survivor outtake. People trying to out manuver each other and step on their fellow teammates by deception and lying and deceit. Everyone is guilty and that means everyone involved in the process. Dont you think their has been rangeling by those not in the RC4? Give me a break.
Point is that if you really read dons post, the underlying fact is that even his "expert professional" opinion says that things are beyond the fixing point and have been for some while. It is not something that happened in this current concession period. Time to move on and be with your family.
As for A320 I hear emeriates is in need of pilots to fly more rubber dog poop out of Hongkong! They also need a reporter to cover the story!
Good luck to all of the hard working ethical employees of USAirways that did it the right way! A lot of hard work and a caring attitude goes a long way!
EyeInTheSky said:You said it; I didn't
[post="178647"][/post]
Hmmm.... LOT??? BMI??? puleeze.
LH will almost certainly give the same song and dance to UAIR that they gave to UAL. And not do a damn thing. (Except, of course, for an encouraging PR news statement about how they stand behind the restructuring plans of their partner, blah, blah, blah....)
Hope I'm wrong.
Is there any legitimate way for a F/O to refuse to fly with this guy? I mean the sooner he is off the premises the better! Savy :down:
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
savyinvestor said:
He won't be a Captain for long savy, think about it. And, if anything is to be "refused" how about refusing jumpseat to this commuter/Benedict Arnold.
He also seems quite worried about the fragmentation protection. Could he be worried that no one would want his sorry {you know what} without this protection? Savy
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Fragmentation is a joke. Can you say "stapler". Believe that "hombre" has one weird reputation around the industry. I think he realizes this is his only shot at a fly boy job. Maybe he can get in with NetJets I hear they are desparate.
Please explain this out of seniority furlough thing. The idea that the company can just fire someone who they do not like, consider a trouble maker, or just wants to without just cause seems a little weird to me.
Someone help me here.
Thanks
Someone help me here.
Thanks
I did not originate the out of seniority furlough comment, ALPA's advisors did. Maybe you should listen to ALPA's attorney's like I did.
Take it for what's it's worth, but do not "shoot the messenger".
I do not want to see anybody lose their job, but in the case of the pilot's, the advisors said that if a deal was struck 2 months ago it would have been for 80 to 85% of the ask. The advisors also said that every day that went by the proposal's would get worse.
Guess what? The advisor's were right and the RC4 was wrong.
Next week the company will seek S.1113(e) motions and pay and benefits will be immediately cut while the parties work on the S.1113/S.1114 motion. ALPA's advisors have warned the union's have little leverage.
All of this bloodshed could have been avoided and I believe it's better to have a a job than no job, while looking for a job. Now many people are going to experience some very negative news.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Take it for what's it's worth, but do not "shoot the messenger".
I do not want to see anybody lose their job, but in the case of the pilot's, the advisors said that if a deal was struck 2 months ago it would have been for 80 to 85% of the ask. The advisors also said that every day that went by the proposal's would get worse.
Guess what? The advisor's were right and the RC4 was wrong.
Next week the company will seek S.1113(e) motions and pay and benefits will be immediately cut while the parties work on the S.1113/S.1114 motion. ALPA's advisors have warned the union's have little leverage.
All of this bloodshed could have been avoided and I believe it's better to have a a job than no job, while looking for a job. Now many people are going to experience some very negative news.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
ELP_WN_Psgr
Senior
- Nov 29, 2003
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pardon me for asking, but wouldn't reducing what the company was offering just to be punitive constitute "not bargaining in good faith"?
There are some of us who observe the industry and have for years...and if it makes anyone feel better.....regardless of what the pilots did or didn't do with respect to those unappealing proposals....a lot of folks were going to have some very negative news.
The upside is...at least now, the right to self help is intact.
There are some of us who observe the industry and have for years...and if it makes anyone feel better.....regardless of what the pilots did or didn't do with respect to those unappealing proposals....a lot of folks were going to have some very negative news.
The upside is...at least now, the right to self help is intact.
A320:
Perhaps you should read what you write.
If the company would have settled for 80% of the total a few months ago, you can bet your 4th strip that the morons would have been back before the ink was dry crying a river about how the industry has changed faster than they anticipated... you get the picture.
A320, I surely hope that you are not behind the "out of seniority furlough" to get rid of "certain" troublemakers like the RC4.
I shared a cockpit with you several times. While I won't share my experience with the rest of the board, I think you should retract the statement and keep to the reporting.
Boomer
Perhaps you should read what you write.
If the company would have settled for 80% of the total a few months ago, you can bet your 4th strip that the morons would have been back before the ink was dry crying a river about how the industry has changed faster than they anticipated... you get the picture.
A320, I surely hope that you are not behind the "out of seniority furlough" to get rid of "certain" troublemakers like the RC4.
I shared a cockpit with you several times. While I won't share my experience with the rest of the board, I think you should retract the statement and keep to the reporting.
Boomer
Just one more point regarding out of seniority furloughs for the pilot group.
The company is entering bankruptcy with a strong cash position and does not require DIP financing, but during the winter when traffic is slow, especially with current fuel prices, the most important factor in emerging will be cash flow.
To prevent re-training the pilot group due to down bids, the company could furlough out of seniority and save millions of dollars. This would instantly provide cash relief and not have the airline incur training expense, according to ALPA officials.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
The company is entering bankruptcy with a strong cash position and does not require DIP financing, but during the winter when traffic is slow, especially with current fuel prices, the most important factor in emerging will be cash flow.
To prevent re-training the pilot group due to down bids, the company could furlough out of seniority and save millions of dollars. This would instantly provide cash relief and not have the airline incur training expense, according to ALPA officials.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Without a new contract and S.1113 protection, according to ALPA's advisors the company could seek to shred the contract, which ALPA's advisors said would likely be granted. The attorney's are the one's who said the company could furlough out of seniority not me, and pick who they wanted to furlough. Do I like it? No, but it's what is being discussed.
Regardless, we are where we are and this is a risk the RC4 was briefed on.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Regardless, we are where we are and this is a risk the RC4 was briefed on.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
PITbull
Veteran
USA320,
According to ALPA officials? The contracts are in place unless there is abrogation, which a judge would have to grant, and that is only CONSIDERED AFTER LABOR SITS AND NEOTIATIES IN "GOOD FAITH".
Did you miss that section in your reading....yea, thought so.
At that point, if no agreements are negotiatied, a judge considers abrogation and we either accept the contracts given or we are released to "self help" actions....
YOU DO FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS, RIGHT?
I THOUGHT THE COMPANY HAD A CASH PROBLEM....Strong cash position???? You need about $500 million in BK. What happended to the loan covenant amouts to maintain?
According to ALPA officials? The contracts are in place unless there is abrogation, which a judge would have to grant, and that is only CONSIDERED AFTER LABOR SITS AND NEOTIATIES IN "GOOD FAITH".
Did you miss that section in your reading....yea, thought so.
At that point, if no agreements are negotiatied, a judge considers abrogation and we either accept the contracts given or we are released to "self help" actions....
YOU DO FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS, RIGHT?
I THOUGHT THE COMPANY HAD A CASH PROBLEM....Strong cash position???? You need about $500 million in BK. What happended to the loan covenant amouts to maintain?
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