Alpa's Letter To The Afa

ualdriver

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
509
0
December 21, 2004

Pat Friend, President
Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO
501 Third Street, NW
Washington, DC 20001

Dear Pat:

Thank you for reaching out to me this morning to discuss the issues raised by your recent comments to the Financial Times. Nonetheless, I must reiterate how surprised and angered our members are at your comments in print regarding the Tentative Agreement between ALPA and United. It was rash and beyond explanation for you to suggest that ALPA "should be expelled from the AFL-CIO," or to refer to the United pilot leadership as "despicable." Your words were an unexpected, unfair broadside against pilots at United and every other ALPA carrier. Now that you and your advisors have read the agreement, and received a briefing from United regarding its provisions, I expect that you now agree that it does not call for the termination of the AFA's or any other pension plan at United.

As you are aware, United has said for some time that in order for it to emerge from bankruptcy, it must terminate the defined benefit plans of all its employees and replace them with defined contribution arrangements. It must also achieve hundreds of millions in annual labor cost savings, over and above the concessions it has been granted since filing for bankruptcy in December 2002. The United pilots' leadership has concluded that there is a sufficient basis for the company's claims, and that it would be irresponsible for us to ignore this situation.

Faced with the economic realities, ALPA reached a tentative agreement that would, if adopted, terminate United's motion against us under Section 1113. As part of that TA, ALPA has agreed not to oppose a request by United for Bankruptcy Court approval of termination of the Pilot A-Plan under a procedure that grants other affected parties a full opportunity to argue against the termination if they so desire. As part of the pilot agreement, ALPA insisted on a "me too" clause, which assures pilots that if United backs away from its claim that plan terminations are necessary and permits any other employee group to keep its defined benefit plan, the pilots will have the right to fight termination of their A-Plan.

As you know, contingency clauses have been fairly standard in airline labor negotiations for many years, including AFA contracts. They assure that the pain (or gain) is spread fairly among employee groups, particularly when agreements are reached sequentially. I would never expect you to agree to a possible termination of the flight attendants' pension plan without a similar agreement.

With this TA, United pilots have stepped up to the plate and provided their fair share of the necessary cost savings, based on their percentage of the total company payroll. As we both know, pilots are almost always the lead group in negotiations. In good economic times, other employee groups want to see how well ALPA does and they set their expectations based on the pilots' successes. In bad times, management goes after us first because we are the biggest target. We would not be representing our members' best interests if we failed to negotiate contingency clauses related to other union agreements under these circumstances.

Some are mischaracterizing the pilots' pension contingency clause as trying to "force" the other unions to accept termination of their plans. This is utter nonsense. As I told you in our phone conversation, we are not trying to force any other union to do anything. Other employee groups are free to negotiate the best deal possible for their members, and we would never interfere with that. The pension contingency clause simply protects the pilots if the defined benefit plan of any other group remains protected.

I am willing to discuss these issues further, but in the meantime I ask you to continue to study this agreement. I hope that, upon further reflection, you will agree there is nothing in ALP A's Tentative Agreement that is inappropriate or interferes with AF A's negotiations with United.

Fraternally yours,
Duane E. Woerth, President
 
Ok Pat, I agree.........I want a total "Me Too" clause for our givebacks though. I'm pretty positive that United has NO intention of giving the flight attendants anything even close to this TA the pilots got. Until then......CHAOS!!!!
 
Burn the house down Fly! Burn it down to the ground! That will teach us all a good lesson!

You want a "me too" clause for your concessions? I think that is an EXCELLENT idea. Let's start with the first round of concessions ALPA gave so we can truly be fair and then we'll go from there. I can't wait to get a portion of my 1.1B a year that we gave up the first time!
 
ualdriver said:
Burn the house down Fly! Burn it down to the ground! That will teach us all a good lesson!

You want a "me too" clause for your concessions? I think that is an EXCELLENT idea. Let's start with the first round of concessions ALPA gave so we can truly be fair and then we'll go from there. I can't wait to get a portion of my 1.1B a year that we gave up the first time!
[post="230632"][/post]​
so you expect a "me too clause" but if the afa ask for the same thing they are burning down the house? :blink:
 
Look Duane,you say you are the first to negotiate and as such set a precedent in the negotiations. You handed the company your 'A' plan on a silver platter (or sold it for half a billion dollars, however you want to look at it) Now you've set the 'precedent'

What in God's name ever gave you the idea that ANY of us in the other groups were going to be willing to give up our pensions without a fight?

Now, if any of us fight pension termination and win - your ENTIRE concession agreement goes out the window? Your ENTIRE agreement is based on the termination of everyone elses pension?

That's how I read it.
 
local 12 proud said:
so you expect a "me too clause" but if the afa ask for the same thing they are burning down the house? :blink:
[post="230638"][/post]​
No, those comments were concerning the "CHAOS" statement. The AFA can obviously negotiate whatever they want.

Actually, I think the ALPA agreement says that if another union negotiates a pension, ALPA has the option of giving up our C-fund in exchange for a pension similar to what that other group would get. I don't think it negates the entire tentative contract.
 
Don't bother explaining, ualdriver. Some of these people simply want any reason they can conjure up to blame others and hate ALPA, regardless of the proof you show them to the contrary. It is impossible to reason with the unreasonable.

They make up their mind first, then look for "facts" to support their predetermined conclusions. As they say... "Ready ... FIRE!... aim."
 
kcab,

The problem is that you won't save your pensions, but you Luddites are too dense to see that it is preferable to come up with an alternative. Rant and rave all you want buddy, but change is coming.
 
as i've said before... the arrogance of saying you folks just don't understand...
shhhh big people are talking, it's like the leaders of the donner party saying hey look we brought you all the way up here and you don't appreciate the beautiful buffet, you silly bunch of ingrates...

if you look at the raises we negotiated prior to taking the last round of cuts and compare them with alpa's i think you will understand the problem with your language and your position, we havn't had a decent raise since the late 80's
there is no mention of that, and whether you like it or not this is a new and dangerous precedent.....

if the agreement has a me too clause in all ways, for all groups, in proportion to salary, then by all means... me too
 
767jetz said:
Don't bother explaining, ualdriver. Some of these people simply want any reason they can conjure up to blame others and hate ALPA, regardless of the proof you show them to the contrary. It is impossible to reason with the unreasonable.

They make up their mind first, then look for "facts" to support their predetermined conclusions. As they say... "Ready ... FIRE!... aim."
[post="230689"][/post]​
Keep spinning, pal!
 
ualdriver said:
I don't think it negates the entire tentative contract.
[post="230683"][/post]​

Jeeze ualdriver, you're making it sound like 'think' is a pretty big step for you. Maybe take some time away from this silly forum and try reading your tentative. I have and it does indeed negate the entire LOA.

737nCH11: your handle pretty much explains where your head is at. You seem to, in some perverted manner, be proud of it. Vote however you wish - we're all going to the court now. Change is definitely coming. I can probably make a pretty decent living working on BMW's - maybe you can fly Caravans?

shoot, I'll be making more than you!
 
Actually, you won't. Instead of chest-thumping and posturing like you and your ilk have done for the past two years I have started a successful business. I fly part-time now, so I am pretty content. Maybe you can work on my BMW.
 
If this ALPA "concession" agreement is ratified,then the feeding frenzy on airline employee's is going to go into afterburner. Basically this agreement says we(the pilot's) will help UAL management wipe out all other pensions in the airline industry as long as we don't lose a dime. Eventually this agreement will come back like a boomarang to haunt the ALPA. What goes around comes around!
 
ALPA-UAL gave up more during the first round of concessions because you were so far ahead of the industry average in terms of total pilot labor cost. The other labor groups were not in such a sweet position and thus didn't have as much to give back.

ALPA achieved that level of compensation in part on the backs of every United employee who was here in 2000 and had to live through that whole debacle, which has been curiously forgotten by just about every pilot.
 

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