American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[swamt]

You're the guy that's been on these pages insulting most people that you don't agree with. As it turns out you've been consistently wrong about this entire process, which is especially noteworthy being that you have so many "friends" to rely on for your information.

Having to constantly deflect, defer or even change the subject because of the information others relied on you to share has been so wrong. 😵

And it still amazes him that I know more than him. LOL...

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Only because we’ve all bought into the idea that they do...

it's an idea or is it a reality now?

corporatism is a real thing. it took a few decades, but it's a reality today.

the democratic party got bored with dusting off it's union credentials every 2 year election cycle and decided to become the party for illegal immigrants, men who want to use public bathrooms with women and telling me that since i'm white, somehow i'm privileged and should feel some guilt about it.

bottom line, the republican party impeccably serves it's core constituents (wealthy/big business) while the democratic party is now the party of identity politics.

this is what we have now.

 

[swamt]

I’m my opinion, I don’t see any leverage in Sec 6. I don’t see any right now to be honest. What are we doing now that would force the company to rethink their position?

I would agree. I think the leverage was lost when the union agreed to the raises for the members to be able to work all metals, that was huge for the company.

 

[swamt]

You forgot to mention AMFA at SWA. 5 and half years (And counting)

Next?

Yes 5.5 years is long time, but, I will say this, scope remains as is, LOA 1 and 2 stays, no job losses or headcounts. I will still wait for the RS's for more info.
At least with AMFA the membership gets real time updates with all accurate info on what got passed back and forth. The mechanics at AA really do need their own mechanics union like the Pilots and F/A's do...

Well technically we don't have a official T/A yet, AMFA tried to put some language in there the company did not agree to, the company sent it back. This was after the union had it for 18 days. So maybe we will get to vote sometime this summer. No road shows scheduled yet! Some people are trying to spread if we don't have a deal the FAA won't approve our ETOPS program, trying to generate a no vote. So who knows. Maybe we will go longer than 6 years.

New rumor is we will have a T/A some time next week. Rumor though not confirmed yet.

 

[Tim Nelson]

it's an idea or is it a reality now?

corporatism is a real thing. it took a few decades, but it's a reality today.

the democratic party got bored with dusting off it's union credentials every 2 year election cycle and decided to become the party for illegal immigrants, men who want to use public bathrooms with women and telling me that since i'm white, somehow i'm privileged and should feel some guilt about it.

bottom line, the republican party impeccably serves it's core constituents (wealthy/big business) while the democratic party is now the party of identity politics.

this is what we have now.

and corporatism didnt leave out the Labor Organizations who dont give one damn about their members benefits.

We can say with certainty, due to the proof, that the iam doesnt give one damn about health care. The contract talks have ceased due to Sitos election. The iam does care about its anti-worker pension but it isnt a deal breaker for management.

 

[NYer]

I would agree. I think the leverage was lost when the union agreed to the raises for the members to be able to work all metals, that was huge for the company.

When that happened it was easy to see this process would take longer, but losing leverage? Hardly.

Don't see how making $24 an hour, while others are at $30 gives us any leverage, especially over a period of 2 years.

 

[Racer X]

With all due respect, these negotiations were never on the rail. I said from day one that the two contracts were too different
to blend into one without calling it a concessionary contract because the company would not accept all the best items of each
contract. Add to that the non-vote on the Association & the snake oil salesmen trying to sell the IAMPF to the LAA folks you
would have to say the level of trust & optimism was dead from the start.

I disagree...Who wanted the best from both contracts??? The company would’ve been ecstatic with the best of either CBA. ( aside from the LUS medical possibly) They actually offered EXACTLY that in the memo they put out in Sept..
BUT the best of both would’ve been language from a bankrupt agreement on Twu side or language from one CBA removed from bankruptcy on IAM side. None of any combination of language gets us the Industry Leading Agreement.
Do you still want bankrupt language in the JCBA??

 

[NYer]

I disagree...Who wanted the best from both contracts??? The company would’ve been ecstatic with the best of either CBA. ( aside from the LUS medical possibly) They actually offered EXACTLY that in the memo they put out in Sept..
BUT the best of both would’ve been language from a bankrupt agreement on Twu side or language from one CBA removed from bankruptcy on IAM side. None of any combination of language gets us the Industry Leading Agreement.

Do you still want bankrupt language in the JCBA??

Apparently, that's no longer the stated goal.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I disagree...Who wanted the best from both contracts??? The company would’ve been ecstatic with the best of either CBA. ( aside from the LUS medical possibly) They actually offered EXACTLY that in the memo they put out in Sept..
BUT the best of both would’ve been language from a bankrupt agreement on Twu side or language from one CBA removed from bankruptcy on IAM side. None of any combination of language gets us the Industry Leading Agreement.
Do you still want bankrupt language in the JCBA??

Dude, we have absolute morons in Sito and Alex. They have said they want the best from both. The company actually offered more than what Sito and Alex asked for. Best of both means:
1. 5 weeks vacation
2. 5 sick days at full pay
3. 7 holidays
4. no shift differ
5. 5% 401k.
6. no shift differ
7. no profit sharing.
Nothing!

Look, Sito already put out a letter saying we most likely cant strike and that the next offer could be less. The letter was addressed to United when he told them if they vote against the ta that waived their health care and brought in unlimited pt that they would get less. So why have that sorta representation?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Apparently, that's no longer the stated goal.

well, i think formally they were asking for industry leading but in the last update they compromised and reduced the chatter to only "a fair agreement".

Just sloppy writing or inconsistent.

 

[P. REZ]

well, i think formally they were asking for industry leading but in the last update they compromised and reduced the chatter to only "a fair agreement".

Just sloppy writing or inconsistent.

We would have a ta if they backed off outsourcing, added some big cities, did something better with pension/401k, gave a true top wage that didn't fall behind others in a matter of months, made profit sharing more in line with DL/UA and kept our insurance with PT paying same as FT. I think I touched on all the issues. Everything else we ta'd we believe is solid, not perfect, but solid.

P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

We would have a ta if they backed off outsourcing, added some big cities, did something better with pension/401k, gave a true top wage that didn't fall behind others in a matter of months, made profit sharing more in line with DL/UA and kept our insurance with PT paying same as FT. I think I touched on all the issues. Everything else we ta'd we believe is solid, not perfect, but solid.

P. Rez

absolutely, but in the end, Sito will agree to alot less. Thats the problem. When I told lus people that Sitos United agreement would come back to haunt us, nobody cared. You even gave consent with a unanimous eboard vote.
Now Parker wants the United contract and 400% health care spikes and no part time cap. So why did you vote as an eboard member for that but not now? Parker wants to know.
Prez, you cant have it both ways.

 

[P. REZ]

absolutely, but in the end, Sito will agree to alot less. Thats the problem. When I told lus people that Sitos United agreement would come back to haunt us, nobody cared. You even gave consent with a unanimous eboard vote.
Now Parker wants the United contract and 400% health care spikes and no part time cap. So why did you vote as an eboard member for that but not now? Parker wants to know.
Prez, you cant have it both ways.

Tim,

I see politics as usual for you. People want to know why you tell people they shouldn't organize? People want to know why you tell the company this current offer would pass by 95%?

You know a few years ago I tried to get you to get involved in a positive way but you didn't. You just want to bash 100% of the time. The company loves guys like you, undermining your own damn Union at any cost. Smdh!!

P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

I see politics as usual for you. People want to know why you tell people they shouldn't organize? People want to know why you tell the company this current offer would pass by 95%?

You know a few years ago I tried to get you to get involved in a positive way but you didn't. You just want to bash 100% of the time. The company loves guys like you, undermining your own damn Union at any cost. Smdh!!

P. Rez

you wanted to get me involved?

I told everyone why we shouldnt be organizing jetblue so nobody needs to ask. They will all get contracted out Prez. Thats the truth. The only logical reason to organize them is to use the spirit model which agrees to contract out everything and all stations but jfk where the iam can get dues and the company can cut all benefits. You know that. And same with delta ramp. Immediately Kev will be jobless. You going to give him a job?

And im the exact opposite of politics. I will never get established votes by being honest about jetblue or delta.

But OUR problem is that you put pressure on Parker by voting to hose our United brothers. That was your politics that gave Sito and delaney their "unanimous" support. You dont think Parkers eboard wants what you voted for at United? Isom himself begged for it in the phl video and said he would sign it immediately.
Thats on you Prez so dont act like you care. What happens at United doesnt stay at United.

 

[P. REZ]

you wanted to get me involved?

I told everyone why we shouldnt be organizing jetblue so nobody needs to ask. They will all get contracted out Prez. Thats the truth. The only logical reason to organize them is to use the spirit model which agrees to contract out everything and all stations but jfk where the iam can get dues and the company can cut all benefits. You know that. And same with delta ramp. Immediately Kev will be jobless. You going to give him a job?

And im the exact opposite of politics. I will never get established votes by being honest about jetblue or delta.

But OUR problem is that you put pressure on Parker by voting to hose our United brothers. That was your politics that gave Sito and delaney their "unanimous" support. You dont think Parkers eboard wants what you voted for at United? Isom himself begged for it in the phl video and said he would sign it immediately.
Thats on you Prez so dont act like you care. What happens at United doesnt stay at United.

Oh crap, are you serious? With your mentality, it would be the death of Unions. My opinion, if a company outsources, organize them. This country is ripe for organizing, look at what's going on. Teacher strikes in several states, the drive for $15, etc. Every person in a corporate America job should be organized and then companies would have to deal with the workers they have. Or, we can tell them all to stay put and suffer. Is that your strategy wanting to lead the IAM? Don't organize because you will lose your job! The middle class is already suffering and it would get worse. Smdh!

P. Rez