American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

Oh crap, are you serious? With your mentality, it would be the death of Unions. My opinion, if a company outsources, organize them. This country is ripe for organizing, look at what's going on. Teacher strikes in several states, the drive for $15, etc. Every person in a corporate America job should be organized and then companies would have to deal with the workers they have. Or, we can tell them all to stay put and suffer. Is that your strategy wanting to lead the IAM? Don't organize because you will lose your job! The middle class is already suffering and it would get worse. Smdh!

P. Rez

we have to organize. period. But i want to pass a conflict of interest bylaw. For instance, No, the iam should not represent workers at McGee that you supported. In doin so, it never enhances our family rearing jobs but replaces them.

If one is loyal to the Labor Organization then, yea, organize everything and trample on jobs.

But if one is loyal to a group of members it represents then I dont personally think its permissible to also represent the cheap labor outfit. United ground isnt helping United mainline quality of work life.

Same with American. A twu mainline doesnt need an envoy person hanging around. Envoy hasnt ever had their situation enhanced in 30 years...its still cheap labor used to steal our jobs. I dont care if they wear a union pin or not if they keep encroaching on family rearing jobs.
Ive never seen your theory work. Envoy is still a chit job but it does more of our work prez.

And i understand your theory, i just havent seen it work in practice.

But as far as Parker, yes, you had a responsible vote on the 141 eboard. Parker looks bad to his eboard if he cant get the same thing your eboard gave united.

 

[Buck]

You forgot to mention AMFA at SWA. 5 and half years (And counting)

Next?

With 5 Heavy Maintenance Lines.
Why is it that AMFA at SWA is not used as a comparator for our Contract Negotiations?

 

[B737 driver]

With 5 Heavy Maintenance Lines.
Why is it that AMFA at SWA is not used as a comparator for our Contract Negotiations?

You might want our pay and holidays and overtime rules, and 401k match, and profit sharing. But if you had our work rule language, with only 5 lines of heavy maintenance checks, and line maintenance. You would probably lose about 3000 mechanics.

 

[Buck]

You might want our pay and holidays and overtime rules, and 401k match, and profit sharing. But if you had our work rule language, with only 5 lines of heavy maintenance checks, and line maintenance. You would probably lose about 3000 mechanics.

Lets see where we end up. I am afraid that after the Early Out that our head count is going to shink anyway. I just wonder as the Mechanic ranks become smaller will the Fleet Service follow?

 

[B737 driver]

Lets see where we end up. I am afraid that after the Early Out that our head count is going to shink anyway. I just wonder as the Mechanic ranks become smaller will the Fleet Service follow?

How much do they want to contract out with ramp. So have you guys heard anymore about American facility in Brazil and if that will have any affect or not. Also what plan do they have for maintenance?

 

[P. REZ]

we have to organize. period. But i want to pass a conflict of interest bylaw. For instance, No, the iam should not represent workers at McGee that you supported. In doin so, it never enhances our family rearing jobs but replaces them.

If one is loyal to the Labor Organization then, yea, organize everything and trample on jobs.

But if one is loyal to a group of members it represents then I dont personally think its permissible to also represent the cheap labor outfit. United ground isnt helping United mainline quality of work life.

Same with American. A twu mainline doesnt need an envoy person hanging around. Envoy hasnt ever had their situation enhanced in 30 years...its still cheap labor used to steal our jobs. I dont care if they wear a union pin or not if they keep encroaching on family rearing jobs.
Ive never seen your theory work. Envoy is still a chit job but it does more of our work prez.

And i understand your theory, i just havent seen it work in practice.

But as far as Parker, yes, you had a responsible vote on the 141 eboard. Parker looks bad to his eboard if he cant get the same thing your eboard gave united.

Of course Parker would take the UA contract, they have 200+ less aircraft. You have to know he's saying that he would take the same amount of people they have to run a bigger operation, and outsource the rest. Duh! As for organizing, it would work if Union density grew. It's tough now because there aren't enough people organized.

P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Of course Parker would take the UA contract, they have 200+ less aircraft. You have to know he's saying that he would take the same amount of people they have to run a bigger operation, and outsource the rest. Duh! As for organizing, it would work if Union density grew. It's tough now because there aren't enough people organized.

P. Rez

density is a problem. Our union isnt getting any bigger. One more year and another year of less active members. Our Grand Lodge leadership is taking the ibt and seiu model though as we are focused alot on voluntary organizing victories, and also shifting more to pt. The IAM used to reject that even though the ibt and seiu expanded that way, but about 2 years ago martinez pitched a new organizing plan he called "thinking outside the box". McGee and United ground are 3,000 members as a result of that and although the union gets their dues, McGee lost their civil rights and minimum wage. At any rate, the contrast between me and martinez couldnt be any greater on this.

 

[chilokie1]

I disagree...Who wanted the best from both contracts??? The company would’ve been ecstatic with the best of either CBA. ( aside from the LUS medical possibly) They actually offered EXACTLY that in the memo they put out in Sept..
BUT the best of both would’ve been language from a bankrupt agreement on Twu side or language from one CBA removed from bankruptcy on IAM side. None of any combination of language gets us the Industry Leading Agreement.
Do you still want bankrupt language in the JCBA??

Good point! I should have said the least crappy. But I was thinking about the IAM health plan and scope language
that covers the IAM line maintenance language & the TWU overhaul language. Even though the TWU scope agreement isn't what it once was it still has better base maintenance language. But you have to agree the two retirement plans are very problematic, any agreement that puts TWU members on the IAMPF is a deal breaker for most LAA guys. And plenty IAM
guys want to keep the IAMPF. Of course getting an industry-leading contract is the goal, my point was blending two very
different contracts while both unions are naturally going to fight for their memberships is only going to make it harder because
one union's view of an industry-leading contract may be a concessionary contract to the other.

 

[737823]

Of course Parker would take the UA contract, they have 200+ less aircraft. You have to know he's saying that he would take the same amount of people they have to run a bigger operation, and outsource the rest. Duh! As for organizing, it would work if Union density grew. It's tough now because there aren't enough people organized.

P. Rez

Ok so you support growing union density, then the IAM should have manned up and honorably stepped aside like the TWU did after HP, and the IAM ultimately did after imposing the travesty of TWA on nAAtives.

You started at TWU 580, right? Had the TWU been the sole bargaining agent and your LUS side integrated under AA couldn’t yourself and all the AGCs at CLT, PHL and PIT have gotten TWU local president or international jobs? You switched sides between “rival unions” in the last transaction why not this time?

Josh

 

[P. REZ]

Ok so you support growing union density, then the IAM should have manned up and honorably stepped aside like the TWU did after HP, and the IAM ultimately did after imposing the travesty of TWA on nAAtives.

You started at TWU 580, right? Had the TWU been the sole bargaining agent and your LUS side integrated under AA couldn’t yourself and all the AGCs at CLT, PHL and PIT have gotten TWU local president or international jobs? You switched sides between “rival unions” in the last transaction why not this time?

Josh

1. TWU didn't step aside, look at the LM2 report.
2. IAM would have won if an election occurred.

P. Rez

 

[Jester]

Ok so you support growing union density, then the IAM should have manned up and honorably stepped aside like the TWU did after HP, and the IAM ultimately did after imposing the travesty of TWA on nAAtives.

You started at TWU 580, right? Had the TWU been the sole bargaining agent and your LUS side integrated under AA couldn’t yourself and all the AGCs at CLT, PHL and PIT have gotten TWU local president or international jobs? You switched sides between “rival unions” in the last transaction why not this time?

Josh

PRez just didn't start at TWU 580, he was one of the organizers... truly one of the O.G.'s. I think one reason for the TWU to have stepped aside was the militancy of the IAM, in particular, demonstrated in a PHL hotel after the infamous "Season's Beatings" event. Throw in a few million for the TWU to go away and the IAM didn't need to go through a vote. I think those two differences had much to do with the Association's creation.

 

[737823]

PRez just didn't start at TWU 580, he was one of the organizers... truly one of the O.G.'s. I think one reason for the TWU to have stepped aside was the militancy of the IAM, in particular, demonstrated in a PHL hotel after the infamous "Season's Beatings" event. Throw in a few million for the TWU to go away and the IAM didn't need to go through a vote. I think those two differences had much to do with the Association's creation.

I know about the violence at PHL, but didn’t the TWU ultimately not contest representation?

LAA would never have voted in the IAM, they imposed the mess of TWA which cost each and every nAAtive dearly and also demonstrated how worthless their representation was if they did indeed waive the LPPs, yet still wanted the TWU to grant full occupational DOH on the basis of AFL-CIO affiliation.

My point to Rez is having all 30k+ across all classifications in a single union would provide union density not this half baked water down “association” that has proven worthless.

Josh

 

[737823]

1. TWU didn't step aside, look at the LM2 report.
2. IAM would have won if an election occurred.

P. Rez

Which LM-2, 580 or International?

No way LAA would have voted in the IAM after them imposing the mess of TWA which cost each and every nAAtive on the property dearly. You all should have been integrated under TWU agreement-no more IAMNPF, no more catering, LUS health care, small stations like ONT, SJC, MCI, SLC, etc.

Josh

 

[swamt]

Wow more name calling! Now I'm stupid and a snowflake. Self validation through name calling.....impressive. And as for the teamsters they would have made a deal in a hotel room years ago.

And let's not forget, behind closed doors as well...

With 5 Heavy Maintenance Lines.
Why is it that AMFA at SWA is not used as a comparator for our Contract Negotiations?

I have always wondered the same. Go figure...

 

[swamt]

1. TWU didn't step aside, look at the LM2 report.
2. IAM would have won if an election occurred.

P. Rez

You have got to be freakin kidding me!! The IAM would NOT have won the election between TWU and IAM if an election was warranted. This is why the IAM made damn sure that there was no election. The IAM was scared to freakin death that they would have been removed from the ranks if there was a vote. You know very well P.Rez, that if there was a vote from this merger that the TWU would have EASILY won the majority vote. Quit kidding yourself. If you lean towards the IAM side, you need to be removed from nego's. You should remain imparcial and nego for both sides equally. WOW!!!