American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

I believe It is the point. To have contractual language that the company can’t eliminate is better than a policy. So just by virtue of having CBA language, it’s better.

Aside from the preference of contractual language over a company policy, the expectation would have been for that contractual language to be closer to the current LAA CS Policy than the current IAM Swap language.

If the TWU were in negotiations solo the language that was TA'd would not have been received well and perceived to be inferior. The pressure would have been for the TWU to have the current CS Policy transferred into contractual language, which the airline wouldn't accept.

With the Association, there will be more that will understand the reasoning of that TA.

 

[WeAAsles]

could be, the technicalities and dates are fuzzy for me..but wasn't it the company itself that took the initiative with the stand alone in 2014?

the government gave the company the single operating certificate in 2015, so..how could the twu have represented the still considered iam/us air employees prior to the april 2015 certificate? the stand alone occurred in 2014.

my point is, if wages and major benefits were equal by 2016, and either the twu or iam was the sole bargaining representative of all; we'd all be pulling the same end of the wage & benefits rope.

correct me if i'm wrong.

There was a 9 month time period after the Association was formed where the two parties could have begun the process to reconcile the differences between all the Contracts and been prepared to present a proposal to the Company whenever they chose to accept it, even if we were still waiting for official NMB certification.

The IAM blew that idea off believing that they would have a stronger hand if they concluded getting their agreements finished first. (Creating some animosity for those of us feeling as if we have been left behind currently)

Not to also mention the fact that their Management chose to ignore them while they courted the LAA Unions to secure their support for a merger which I’m sure left a bad taste in their mouths.

(I’m writing these things from a crusty old mind that is only getting more and more senile with the passage of time please remember)

 

[WeAAsles]

Aside from the preference of contractual language over a company policy, the expectation would have been for that contractual language to be closer to the current LAA CS Policy than the current IAM Swap language.

If the TWU were in negotiations solo the language that was TA'd would not have been received well and perceived to be inferior. The pressure would have been for the TWU to have the current CS Policy transferred into contractual language, which the airline wouldn't accept.

This I agree with.

 

[NYer]

yes, i know that and this time last year, i agreed. i took parker and co. at their word. i also took into consideration that the ticket agents (didn't they have their election, union or no union, after april of 2015?) got a TA when it looked like their negotiations had stalled.

if passenger service had the vote of cwa or no union prior to april of 2015, i guess the twu could have swooped in earlier to try and represent all and maybe there would have been no stand-alone contract for lus in 2014?

There would be no "swooping" in. The IAM was already in the process of collecting cards in order to have themselves as an option in a representational vote against the TWU. They wouldn't have needed too many cards at that time.

Soon after they started that campaign the Association became a reality.

 

[WeAAsles]

There would be no "swooping" in. The IAM was already in the process of collecting cards in order to have themselves as an option in a representational vote against the TWU. They wouldn't have needed too many cards at that time.

Soon after they started that campaign the Association became a reality.

They may have needed only 35% of the total which they would have only had a few short months to attempt to collect.

You do recognize how many years it takes to try to organize large groups that aren’t even yet organized right? I think the TWU JetBlue campaign took around 5 years and possibly only the fear of a merger where they would be left out put them over the top.

Irregardless. Even if the hands were reversed, neither Union would have had the time to accomplish such a monumental task even if it was only 35% of the total and not 50% which I’m unsure of the numbers.

 

[Racer X]

Aside from the preference of contractual language over a company policy, the expectation would have been for that contractual language to be closer to the current LAA CS Policy than the current IAM Swap language.

If the TWU were in negotiations solo the language that was TA'd would not have been received well and perceived to be inferior. The pressure would have been for the TWU to have the current CS Policy transferred into contractual language, which the airline wouldn't accept.

With the Association, there will be more that will understand the reasoning of that TA.

Why would there be pressure to transfer the cs policy to language if the members were good with the policy?

 

[WeAAsles]

Why would there be pressure to transfer the cs policy to language if the members were good with the policy?

Oooo. Good question. The Company tomorrow could change the policy if they wanted and make it more uniform with the IAM and CWA language.

When LUS Management took over it should have been obvious to even a half wit that a change was eventually going to come and especially on this.

I think their philosophy is they actually want to encourage people to want to work here for the Airline and not make it easier for people who have their loyalties geared more towards other employers?

 

[NYer]

Why would there be pressure to transfer the cs policy to language if the members were good with the policy?

Knowing the IAM had language in their CBA the expectation would be for that language to be replaced with the CS Policy language and thereby have the best of both worlds.

The preferred language with the certainty of it being in the CBA.

Only problem with that is the airline would never agree to that change.

 

[WeAAsles]

Knowing the IAM had language in their CBA the expectation would be for that language to be replaced with the CS Policy language and thereby have the best of both worlds.

The preferred language with the certainty of it being in the CBA.

Only problem with that is the airline would never agree to that change.

As I recall early on you were a strong proponent for leaving the policy in the hands of trusted Management.

My guess is that you would have tried (probably successfully) to convince most in the room that there is more flexibility leaving it outside the Contract rather than placing it in.

My bet which there’s of course no way to prove outside a different plane of reality that decision would be regretfully fatally flawed.

Former IAM AGC’s (Now TWU Presidents) I’m sure would have implored you to keep it contractually secure to fruitlessly no avail.

 

[737823]

There would be no "swooping" in. The IAM was already in the process of collecting cards in order to have themselves as an option in a representational vote against the TWU. They wouldn't have needed too many cards at that time.

Soon after they started that campaign the Association became a reality.

Did they solicit cards from LLCers on the pretense full DOH would be restored?

Josh

 

[NYer]

As I recall early on you were a strong proponent for leaving the policy in the hands of trusted Management.

My guess is that you would have tried (probably successfully) to convince most in the room that there is more flexibility leaving it outside the Contract rather than placing it in.

My bet which there’s of course no way to prove outside a different plane of reality that decision would be regretfully fatally flawed.

Former IAM AGC’s (Now TWU Presidents) I’m sure would have implored you to keep it contractually secure to fruitlessly no avail.

Do you have that in writing?

Please share.

 

[NYer]

Did they solicit cards from LLCers on the pretense full DOH would be restored?

Josh

No. They were upfront with that.

 

[WeAAsles]

Do you have that in writing?

Please share.

 

[WeAAsles]

I believe It is the point. To have contractual language that the company can’t eliminate is better than a policy. So just by virtue of having CBA language, it’s better.

I once recall arguing quite furiously with a particular individual who didn’t agree with this comment when it came to the CS Policy being moved to Swap Shift language.

That individual made the argument that the Local Union could have more flexibility with Local Management to make adjustments not restricting it to contractual language. Essentially making an argument for favoritism over uniformity.

Since come to discover that even with it in Language, Management can be flexible to a degree if needed and approved.

 

[WeAAsles]

Food for thought?

What if it was always the intention that the TWU Members were to live out the entirety of our Bankruptcy Agreement minus the 2016 wage increases that had to be agreed to by the AA BOD?

Now I’m not thinking this as any sort of punishment rather than something we didn’t do prior or after agreeing to the Association with the IAM. We never agreed to any “Interest Based Negotiations” that could bring in an Arbitrator to decide the Industry Aggregate or Average had we said no to any Negotiated deals with the Airline.

I’m wondering if that decision which I still consider to be the right decision had any bearing on where we sit today, 4 Months away from our Contracts becoming amendable and the Company now trying to push for a conclusion?

Or is this almost perfect timing nothing more than a mere coincidence?