American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

What kind of deal on seniority? A deal that benefited the TWU members? How about if he made a deal that screwed all TWU? How would you feel then? Moreover......
Why do you think the IAM would capitulate?

racer x, little did make a deal that most twu members believe screwed over the twu.

if the iam was 70% of the voters, do you believe the iam would have given the twu 50% of the power - without a vote??

 

[WeAAsles]

and to think, i suggested that maybe the iam wouldn't be out of line wanting compensation, say..$2.00/hr more for their pension in exchange for their insurance?

that way, they can keep the perceived compensation out of the bullies' compensation package?

The IAM guys have had a few rocks being thrown at them on here. Can’t really blame any of them for having a wall up and making an assumption Crema.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i'd just say, read the posts, before they throw rocks back.

the seniority narrative is my issue, is an issue with hundreds, maybe more?, twu members. like i told you in the past, i know this is mayes' baby and he doesn't like whiners and moaners about it.

when i read i read posts that we're all in this together, the ignorance tells me that isn't the case.

we learned here that iam P/Ters only accrued 1/2 seniority prior to 1996? i'd have a problem with that.

 

[NYer]

racer x, little did make a deal that most twu members believe screwed over the twu.

if the iam was 70% of the voters, do you believe the iam would have given the twu 50% of the power - without a vote??

It's fascinating how some believe if this was just a TWU negotiations that somehow we'd be in a different place.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i agree. the company would still be obstinate, stingy and unyielding...whether iam or twu in sole control.

to get everyone pulling on the same end of the rope in 2016-2018, aa would have had to make everything equal/even-steven in 2014 with lus' stand alone.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's fascinating how some believe if this was just a TWU negotiations that somehow we'd be in a different place.

You yourself have consistently maintained that the IAM Medical will be lost in any JCBA. So without the Association as a mechanism to possibly prevent that from occurring or make it more difficult if you were one of the deciders that would not have been an issue for you.

And the IAMPF would likely have been frozen for the former IAM Members as well so that too wouldn’t have been an issue.

 

[WeAAsles]

i agree. the company would still be obstinate, stingy and unyielding...whether iam or twu in sole control.

to get everyone pulling on the same end of the rope in 2016-2018, aa would have had to make everything equal/even-steven in 2014 with lus' stand alone.

Actually had there been no Association and the TWU filed with the NMB for sole representation Negotiations would have probably went straight into JCBA talks. That would have meant no 2014 standalone agreement for the LUS Members.

From there talks would have progressed under the TWU Constitution description which provides for Presidents to have more say depending on how many Members they represent. “Roll Call”

TWU LAA would dominate the talks and force their Contract philosophies on those representatives for the now former IAM Members.

In other words yes this whole thing would have been concluded sooner but at what price?

 

[NYer]

You yourself have consistently maintained that the IAM Medical will be lost in any JCBA. So without the Association as a mechanism to possibly prevent that from occurring or make it more difficult if you were one of the deciders that would not have been an issue for you.

And the IAMPF would likely have been frozen for the former IAM Members as well so that too wouldn’t have been an issue.

We're not in the current position solely because of the IAM medical or the IAM pension.

Even if those items weren't part of these negotiations we'd still be arguing over the outsourcing and any language that had been compromised which the TWU would have fought to keep closer to what we have today, but the airline would want closer to the IAM language.

 

[WeAAsles]

We're not in the current position solely because of the IAM medical or the IAM pension.

Even if those items weren't part of these negotiations we'd still be arguing over the outsourcing and any language that had been compromised which the TWU would have fought to keep closer to what we have today, but the airline would want closer to the IAM language.

But all the other Drama that occurred from multiple angles wouldn’t have existed and the process to reach an agreement for those issues you mention could have been settled quite awhile back.

As I recall there were two separate issues that each took 9 Months to be settled so you can shave off at least 18 Months in those two.

Or are you saying that you believe the TWU Presidents would have been unyielding to any compromising with the Company much like many posters here seem to believe the IAM side is being particularly on their Medical?

 

[NYer]

Actually had there been no Association and the TWU filed with the NMB for sole representation Negotiations would have probably went straight into JCBA talks. That would have meant no 2014 standalone agreement for the LUS Members.

From there talks would have progressed under the TWU Constitution description which provides for Presidents to have more say depending on how many Members they represent. “Roll Call”

TWU LAA would dominate the talks and force their Contract philosophies on those representatives for the now former IAM Members.

In other words yes this whole thing would have been concluded sooner but at what price?

Crema, realize this comes from someone that proclaimed these talks would have ended on several different occasions only for it to fly by all those targets.

If there wasn't an Association there would have been a representation battle which the IAM was in the middle of collecting cards to force a representational vote.

At the same tine the IAM had an amenable CBA and in the middle of negotiations that would have needed to be concluded. That would have stalled the process further.

Get all that out of the way and then we'd face negotiations with former US Airways management that would have tried to pull us towards IAM language, which we would have resisted, rather than compromising as happened in the Association.

The TWU Members would not accept any IAM language, which would have been the position the airline would have taken.

TWU Negotiators or Members would not accept any IAM language and would have expected to have current TWU language as a baseline to improve, not go backwards.

 

[Racer X]

Crema originally worked in a different job function at AA where he was not able to carry his seniority over with him and considers that to still be an ongoing mistake.

Ah....thanks for clarifying

 

[Racer X]

racer x, it looks like your running laps today at the us grand prix in texas when the race is today in indianapolis.

Lol. Just trying to catch up

 

[Racer X]

racer x, little did make a deal that most twu members believe screwed over the twu.

if the iam was 70% of the voters, do you believe the iam would have given the twu 50% of the power - without a vote??

Yes

 

[AANOTOK]

Crema, realize this comes from someone that proclaimed these talks would have ended on several different occasions only for it to fly by all those targets.

If there wasn't an Association there would have been a representation battle which the IAM was in the middle of collecting cards to force a representational vote.

At the same tine the IAM had an amenable CBA and in the middle of negotiations that would have needed to be concluded. That would have stalled the process further.

Get all that out of the way and then we'd face negotiations with former US Airways management that would have tried to pull us towards IAM language, which we would have resisted, rather than compromising as happened in the Association.

The TWU Members would not accept any IAM language, which would have been the position the airline would have taken.

TWU Negotiators or Members would not accept any IAM language and would have expected to have current TWU language as a baseline to improve, not go backwards.

That begs the question NYer, the language the TWU would have wanted no part of, and I’m assuming for a very good reason, did we end up with T/A’s on some of that language we would have desperately fought to keep out since we are an Association? If so, where do did we benefit?

 

[WeAAsles]

Crema, realize this comes from someone that proclaimed these talks would have ended on several different occasions only for it to fly by all those targets.

If there wasn't an Association there would have been a representation battle which the IAM was in the middle of collecting cards to force a representational vote.

At the same tine the IAM had an amenable CBA and in the middle of negotiations that would have needed to be concluded. That would have stalled the process further.

Get all that out of the way and then we'd face negotiations with former US Airways management that would have tried to pull us towards IAM language, which we would have resisted, rather than compromising as happened in the Association.

The TWU Members would not accept any IAM language, which would have been the position the airline would have taken.

TWU Negotiators or Members would not accept any IAM language and would have expected to have current TWU language as a baseline to improve, not go backwards.

This entire synopsis of yours is actually wrong in almost too many areas to count.

And quite a few I don’t even think you actually really believe yourself.