American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

btw, did i miss something? I dont believe there is any NRTW legislation that would affect the airlines. But if there was, then 95% wouldnt pay one red cent for the nasty awful anti unionist we are paying now.

Business unionism has meant labor seeing less and less of a value proposition in being represented. Bosses know that, and have wasted no time driving that wedge.

The rank and file need to start seeing it for what it is, and labor leaders need to stop being complacent.

 

[NYer]

btw, did i miss something? I dont believe there is any NRTW legislation that would affect the airlines. But if there was, then 95% wouldnt pay one red cent for the nasty awful anti unionist we are paying now.

The Congressional Bills for National Right to Work include a provision to strike paragraph 11 from the Railway Labor Act, which speaks on "check-off."


Eleventh. Union security agreements; check-off
Notwithstanding any other provisions of this chapter, or of any other statute or law of the United States, or Territory thereof, or of any State, any carrier or carriers as defined in this chapter and a labor organization or labor organizations duly designated and authorized to represent employees in accordance with the requirements of this chapter shall be permitted-

(a) to make agreements, requiring, as a condition of continued employment, that within sixty days following the beginning of such employment, or the effective date of such agreements, whichever is the later, all employees shall become members of the labor organization representing their craft or class: Provided, That no such agreement shall require such condition of employment with respect to employees to whom membership is not available upon the same terms and conditions as are generally applicable to any other member or with respect to employees to whom membership was denied or terminated for any reason other than the failure of the employee to tender the periodic dues, initiation fees, and assessments (not including fines and penalties) uniformly required as a condition of acquiring or retaining membership.

(b) to make agreements providing for the deduction by such carrier or carriers from the wages of its or their employees in a craft or class and payment to the labor organization representing the craft or class of such employees, of any periodic dues, initiation fees, and assessments (not including fines and penalties) uniformly required as a condition of acquiring or retaining membership: Provided, That no such agreement shall be effective with respect to any individual employee until he shall have furnished the employer with a written assignment to the labor organization of such membership dues, initiation fees, and assessments, which shall be revocable in writing after the expiration of one year or upon the termination date of the applicable collective agreement, whichever occurs sooner.

(c) The requirement of membership in a labor organization in an agreement made pursuant to subparagraph (a) of this paragraph shall be satisfied, as to both a present or future employee in engine, train, yard, or hostling service, that is, an employee engaged in any of the services or capacities covered in the First division of paragraph (h) of section 153 of this title defining the jurisdictional scope of the First Division of the National Railroad Adjustment Board, if said employee shall hold or acquire membership in any one of the labor organizations, national in scope, organized in accordance with this chapter and admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services; and no agreement made pursuant to subparagraph (b) of this paragraph shall provide for deductions from his wages for periodic dues, initiation fees, or assessments payable to any labor organization other than that in which he holds membership: Provided, however, That as to an employee in any of said services on a particular carrier at the effective date of any such agreement on a carrier, who is not a member of any one of the labor organizations, national in scope, organized in accordance with this chapter and admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services, such employee, as a condition of continuing his employment, may be required to become a member of the organization representing the craft in which he is employed on the effective date of the first agreement applicable to him: Provided, further, That nothing herein or in any such agreement or agreements shall prevent an employee from changing membership from one organization to another organization admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services.

(d) Any provisions in paragraphs Fourth and Fifth of this section in conflict herewith are to the extent of such conflict amended.

 

[swamt]

I’ve explained before, the top out rates will be based on annual percentage increase over the terms of the contract or a set percentage above the next highest airline, whichever would be greater for us.
If you are referring to top out at DOS....that has yet to be determined.

Yes Racer, I was asking what rate would be at DOS. Thx for the info.

Nice job Phl!!!!!
Thanks for posting WEAAS

Everybody should do this. It worked for us at SWA when our co. tried doing the nego around the NC. Great job guys keep telling the co. to pack sand on their breakroom nego's and get back to the table.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The Congressional Bills for National Right to Work include a provision to strike paragraph 11 from the Railway Labor Act, which speaks on "check-off."


Eleventh. Union security agreements; check-off
Notwithstanding any other provisions of this chapter, or of any other statute or law of the United States, or Territory thereof, or of any State, any carrier or carriers as defined in this chapter and a labor organization or labor organizations duly designated and authorized to represent employees in accordance with the requirements of this chapter shall be permitted-

(a) to make agreements, requiring, as a condition of continued employment, that within sixty days following the beginning of such employment, or the effective date of such agreements, whichever is the later, all employees shall become members of the labor organization representing their craft or class: Provided, That no such agreement shall require such condition of employment with respect to employees to whom membership is not available upon the same terms and conditions as are generally applicable to any other member or with respect to employees to whom membership was denied or terminated for any reason other than the failure of the employee to tender the periodic dues, initiation fees, and assessments (not including fines and penalties) uniformly required as a condition of acquiring or retaining membership.

(b) to make agreements providing for the deduction by such carrier or carriers from the wages of its or their employees in a craft or class and payment to the labor organization representing the craft or class of such employees, of any periodic dues, initiation fees, and assessments (not including fines and penalties) uniformly required as a condition of acquiring or retaining membership: Provided, That no such agreement shall be effective with respect to any individual employee until he shall have furnished the employer with a written assignment to the labor organization of such membership dues, initiation fees, and assessments, which shall be revocable in writing after the expiration of one year or upon the termination date of the applicable collective agreement, whichever occurs sooner.

(c) The requirement of membership in a labor organization in an agreement made pursuant to subparagraph (a) of this paragraph shall be satisfied, as to both a present or future employee in engine, train, yard, or hostling service, that is, an employee engaged in any of the services or capacities covered in the First division of paragraph (h) of section 153 of this title defining the jurisdictional scope of the First Division of the National Railroad Adjustment Board, if said employee shall hold or acquire membership in any one of the labor organizations, national in scope, organized in accordance with this chapter and admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services; and no agreement made pursuant to subparagraph (b) of this paragraph shall provide for deductions from his wages for periodic dues, initiation fees, or assessments payable to any labor organization other than that in which he holds membership: Provided, however, That as to an employee in any of said services on a particular carrier at the effective date of any such agreement on a carrier, who is not a member of any one of the labor organizations, national in scope, organized in accordance with this chapter and admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services, such employee, as a condition of continuing his employment, may be required to become a member of the organization representing the craft in which he is employed on the effective date of the first agreement applicable to him: Provided, further, That nothing herein or in any such agreement or agreements shall prevent an employee from changing membership from one organization to another organization admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services.

(d) Any provisions in paragraphs Fourth and Fifth of this section in conflict herewith are to the extent of such conflict amended.

interesting. I cant see why any United employee would pay since they are below delta plus they have no scope in 2024.
If lus lose health care then it may be hard to justify dues if we have to pay $600+ like non unionist.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

The Congressional Bills for National Right to Work include a provision to strike paragraph 11 from the Railway Labor Act, which speaks on "check-off."


Eleventh. Union security agreements; check-off
Notwithstanding any other provisions of this chapter, or of any other statute or law of the United States, or Territory thereof, or of any State, any carrier or carriers as defined in this chapter and a labor organization or labor organizations duly designated and authorized to represent employees in accordance with the requirements of this chapter shall be permitted-

(a) to make agreements, requiring, as a condition of continued employment, that within sixty days following the beginning of such employment, or the effective date of such agreements, whichever is the later, all employees shall become members of the labor organization representing their craft or class: Provided, That no such agreement shall require such condition of employment with respect to employees to whom membership is not available upon the same terms and conditions as are generally applicable to any other member or with respect to employees to whom membership was denied or terminated for any reason other than the failure of the employee to tender the periodic dues, initiation fees, and assessments (not including fines and penalties) uniformly required as a condition of acquiring or retaining membership.

(b) to make agreements providing for the deduction by such carrier or carriers from the wages of its or their employees in a craft or class and payment to the labor organization representing the craft or class of such employees, of any periodic dues, initiation fees, and assessments (not including fines and penalties) uniformly required as a condition of acquiring or retaining membership: Provided, That no such agreement shall be effective with respect to any individual employee until he shall have furnished the employer with a written assignment to the labor organization of such membership dues, initiation fees, and assessments, which shall be revocable in writing after the expiration of one year or upon the termination date of the applicable collective agreement, whichever occurs sooner.

(c) The requirement of membership in a labor organization in an agreement made pursuant to subparagraph (a) of this paragraph shall be satisfied, as to both a present or future employee in engine, train, yard, or hostling service, that is, an employee engaged in any of the services or capacities covered in the First division of paragraph (h) of section 153 of this title defining the jurisdictional scope of the First Division of the National Railroad Adjustment Board, if said employee shall hold or acquire membership in any one of the labor organizations, national in scope, organized in accordance with this chapter and admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services; and no agreement made pursuant to subparagraph (b) of this paragraph shall provide for deductions from his wages for periodic dues, initiation fees, or assessments payable to any labor organization other than that in which he holds membership: Provided, however, That as to an employee in any of said services on a particular carrier at the effective date of any such agreement on a carrier, who is not a member of any one of the labor organizations, national in scope, organized in accordance with this chapter and admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services, such employee, as a condition of continuing his employment, may be required to become a member of the organization representing the craft in which he is employed on the effective date of the first agreement applicable to him: Provided, further, That nothing herein or in any such agreement or agreements shall prevent an employee from changing membership from one organization to another organization admitting to membership employees of a craft or class in any of said services.

(d) Any provisions in paragraphs Fourth and Fifth of this section in conflict herewith are to the extent of such conflict amended.

H.R.785 - National Right-to-Work Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/785

This bill amends the National Labor Relations Act and the Railway Labor Act to repeal those provisions that permit employers or labor organizations, pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement that is a union security agreement, to require employees to join a union as a condition of employment (including provisions permitting railroad carriers to require, pursuant to such an agreement, payroll deduction of union dues or fees as a condition of employment).

Republican Senator DeMint previously introduced a National Right to Work bill (S.504) along with seven co-sponsors. That bill, which would prohibit requiring union membership or dues payment as a condition of employment nationwide.

Soon... thanks to your "labor friendly" Republicans you will be able to simply opt out of being in that union you hate. This Repulican bill will allow droves of airline workers to simply stop paying dues, which will de-fund their representation. The result will be a long downhill demise of bargaining power at the table, that will eventually end in NO bargaining power.

At his point, you will simply be "employees at will", and you will have no choice but accept whatever the company decides you deserve!

>SPIT<

 

[Tim Nelson]

H.R.785 - National Right-to-Work Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/785

This bill amends the National Labor Relations Act and the Railway Labor Act to repeal those provisions that permit employers or labor organizations, pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement that is a union security agreement, to require employees to join a union as a condition of employment (including provisions permitting railroad carriers to require, pursuant to such an agreement, payroll deduction of union dues or fees as a condition of employment).

Republican Senator DeMint previously introduced a National Right to Work bill (S.504) along with seven co-sponsors. That bill, which would prohibit requiring union membership or dues payment as a condition of employment nationwide.

Soon... thanks to your "labor friendly" Republicans you will be able to simply opt out of being in that union you hate. This Repulican bill will allow droves of airline workers to simply stop paying dues, which will de-fund their representation. The result will be a long downhill demise of bargaining power at the table, that will eventually end in NO bargaining power.

At his point, you will simply be "employees at will", and you will have no choice but accept whatever the company decides you deserve!

>SPIT<

the exact opposite is true. I suggest the union bosses start doing their jobs otherwise there is little reason to keep paying dues so someone can have 4 retirements and their children can get paid $250,000+. All would be forgiven if they actually made a difference but with non union delta leading the pack, some things get called into question.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

interesting. I cant see why any United employee would pay since they are below delta plus they have no scope in 2024.
If lus lose health care then it may be hard to justify dues if we have to pay $600+ like non unionist.

Nelson, how can you profess to be unaware of the NRTA? Especially, since you are a self proclaimed organized labor expert?
You have been disparaging Charlie Brown in these forums, unfortunately for you... EVERYONE realizes you don't have a fraction of the integrity, humbleness, or honesty as he. This makes you look even worse. Hell, even CLT Rat turned on you!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nelson, how can you profess to be unaware of the NRTA? Especially, since you are a self proclaimed organized labor expert?
You have been disparaging Charlie Brown in these forums, unfortunately for you... EVERYONE realizes you don't have a fraction of the integrity, humbleness, or honesty as he. This makes you look even worse. Hell, even CLT Rat turned on you!

CB violated labor law twice. The first time i figured it was just a mistake and I checked him for it. The second time he violated the rights of his members i gave him a heads up here and he stuck his chest out instead of correcting the error of his way. That showed me he did so intentionally. Anyone sticking their chest out on my turf will be devoured as Im a professional so he had to learn the hard way.
I dont think he is the overall problem but he will clearly give up lus health care or step aside and allow management to bag our healthcare by a proposal vote. Im not sure which one he will pick but he wont step out of line.

He also is robbing the members financially as thse bums voted to give themselves a $25 a day per diem while sitting at home and not on the road. They also upped their monthly cash grab to around $300 a month to blow on beer and food for taking out their buddy pollyannas.
Never mind that they are stealing our money by getting reimbursed for all health care cost....without a board vote. Toss in a GL pension. All those scams would be forgiven by most members if he preserved lus current health care. But he wont. Too much perks for him to lose if he finally breaks from being fairbanks boy.
Sorry

 

[NYer]

H.R.785 - National Right-to-Work Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/785

This bill amends the National Labor Relations Act and the Railway Labor Act to repeal those provisions that permit employers or labor organizations, pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement that is a union security agreement, to require employees to join a union as a condition of employment (including provisions permitting railroad carriers to require, pursuant to such an agreement, payroll deduction of union dues or fees as a condition of employment).

Republican Senator DeMint previously introduced a National Right to Work bill (S.504) along with seven co-sponsors. That bill, which would prohibit requiring union membership or dues payment as a condition of employment nationwide.

Soon... thanks to your "labor friendly" Republicans you will be able to simply opt out of being in that union you hate. This Repulican bill will allow droves of airline workers to simply stop paying dues, which will de-fund their representation. The result will be a long downhill demise of bargaining power at the table, that will eventually end in NO bargaining power.

At his point, you will simply be "employees at will", and you will have no choice but accept whatever the company decides you deserve!

>SPIT<

Yeah. That's what I said.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

H.R.785 - National Right-to-Work Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/785

This bill amends the National Labor Relations Act and the Railway Labor Act to repeal those provisions that permit employers or labor organizations, pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement that is a union security agreement, to require employees to join a union as a condition of employment (including provisions permitting railroad carriers to require, pursuant to such an agreement, payroll deduction of union dues or fees as a condition of employment).

Republican Senator DeMint previously introduced a National Right to Work bill (S.504) along with seven co-sponsors. That bill, which would prohibit requiring union membership or dues payment as a condition of employment nationwide.

Soon... thanks to your "labor friendly" Republicans you will be able to simply opt out of being in that union you hate. This Repulican bill will allow droves of airline workers to simply stop paying dues, which will de-fund their representation. The result will be a long downhill demise of bargaining power at the table, that will eventually end in NO bargaining power.

At his point, you will simply be "employees at will", and you will have no choice but accept whatever the company decides you deserve!

>SPIT<

NYer -- Let's just go ahead and disclose exactly what this all means...

The bill has an excellent chance of becoming law under Trump, and a Republican majority in both wings of Congress. Even the Supreme Court is now stacked with pro Right to Work conservatives, so even if goes there... it's STILL a done deal! Lastly, the bill will KILL ALL Airline Unions... period!
That means, airline workers will eventually be like the majority of all other workers in the US... AT WILL... working for whaterver the company decides to pay.

All the company has to do, is to do exactly what they are already doing... stall ... wait... and bait...

>SPIT<

 

[MetalMover]

One thing you need to start thinking about is your family health care being flushed down the toilet by Mr Baskett. Pay attention to what I'm about to say because the most likely scenario is a political one in which all of us LUS who have been around longer than you have seen before in 2003. The IAM decided not to bring a TA back to us, but instead, allowed the company to negotiate directly with the members by bringing their offer to us for a vote. The union never signed it, again it was not a TA. It was simply an offer that the union said sucked but then stood down and allowed the offer to be presented to the members for a vote. As awful as that 2003 offer was, I couldn't find one person who said they voted for I, but it passed by a strong margin.

I barely agree with you but I think we may both agree that if any offer comes out, it will get passed. Admittedly, I'm among about 2,000 TWU members who really don't have your health care ahead of their extra vacation, etc, but I'm fairly confident that any 'offer' will pass, and that means our LUS health care will be flushed down the drain.

The only thing, and I mean the ONLY thing, that is keeping your health care, is our side refusing to allow a vote. Now, maybe today's update that suggest a vote on the company proposal, won't manifest into one, but just keep in mind that this is a paved path and one that you ought to ask your boy Mr Baskett about.

Because, at the end of the day, if our morons allow a bull chit company proposal to come to the members for a vote, without it being a TA, it will be knifing us in the back. Nothing else is saving our health care other than the power of our union bosses saying no. I have a strong suspicion that the company got the union to move on that this week and consider waiving that power and washing its hands like Pontius Pilot and allowing the people to vote on a chit agreement. We don't have the numbers and it WON"T look good.

Once again, it's ALL ABOUT THE LUS MEDICAL.....We get it!!!!
No where in this post did you mention scope.

 

[MetalMover]

NYer -- Let's just go ahead and disclose exactly what this all means...

The bill has an excellent chance of becoming law under Trump, and a Republican majority in both wings of Congress. Even the Supreme Court is now stacked with pro Right to Work conservatives, so even if goes there... it's STILL a done deal! Lastly, the bill will KILL ALL Airline Unions... period!
That means, airline workers will eventually be like the majority of all other workers in the US... AT WILL... working for whaterver the company decides to pay.

All the company has to do, is to do exactly what they are already doing... stall ... wait... and bait...

>SPIT<

And you will be shocked at the number of union members who decide to opt-out!

 

[NYer]

NYer -- Let's just go ahead and disclose exactly what this all means...

The bill has an excellent chance of becoming law under Trump, and a Republican majority in both wings of Congress. Even the Supreme Court is now stacked with pro Right to Work conservatives, so even if goes there... it's STILL a done deal! Lastly, the bill will KILL ALL Airline Unions... period!
That means, airline workers will eventually be like the majority of all other workers in the US... AT WILL... working for whaterver the company decides to pay.

All the company has to do, is to do exactly what they are already doing... stall ... wait... and bait...

>SPIT<

That may be the case where we eventually end up if the GOP majority is maintained. If we do end up in that worst case scenario, it will take several years to get there.

In the meantime, that Bill was presented in early 2017 and hasn't really moved ahead. It seems stagnant and may be waiting for the Janus decision to come down which opens the door for such legislation to better survive legal challenges than if it was enacted before that decision.

 

[Tim Nelson]

NYer -- Let's just go ahead and disclose exactly what this all means...

The bill has an excellent chance of becoming law under Trump, and a Republican majority in both wings of Congress. Even the Supreme Court is now stacked with pro Right to Work conservatives, so even if goes there... it's STILL a done deal! Lastly, the bill will KILL ALL Airline Unions... period!
That means, airline workers will eventually be like the majority of all other workers in the US... AT WILL... working for whaterver the company decides to pay.

All the company has to do, is to do exactly what they are already doing... stall ... wait... and bait...

>SPIT<

so you are saying that airline unions will finally have to be just as accountable as unions in Michigan?
A funny thing happened along the way as Michigan unions got more accountable and union membership increased.

God forbid they keep refusing to consider dissonant voices of key dissonants who will be capable of campaigning to get mass exits if not listened to. No more nepotism?
Sorry 700, if what you were saying is true then it would have already happened. That said, RTW has been around for years but spiked under Obama.

 

[Tim Nelson]

That may be the case where we eventually end up if the GOP majority is maintained. If we do end up in that worst case scenario, it will take several years to get there.

In the meantime, that Bill was presented in early 2017 and hasn't really moved ahead. It seems stagnant and may be waiting for the Janus decision to come down which opens the door for such legislation to better survive legal challenges than if it was enacted before that decision.

that explains things much better.