American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

knew a guy named scotty here in ord. former north central/nwa and lastly, dl. i believe he recently retired.

after a few decades as an iam guy...thought all you guys would get it in the kiester after voting against a union after merger vote.

was shocked at all the $$ dl kept throwing at you guys, including the record-breaking corporate profit sharing money.

voting in a union at dl sounds like a very tough sell, especially with dl's presence and influence down south.

The problem without a contract is that delta can fire people alot easier. In ord, someone with 30+ years hit an engine a couple months ago and fired him. High seniority means nothing. Just 1 mistake and you gone.

 

[Kev3188]

High seniority just means a bigger target on your back!

 

[bob@las-AA]

The problem without a contract is that delta can fire people alot easier. In ord, someone with 30+ years hit an engine a couple months ago and fired him. High seniority means nothing. Just 1 mistake and you gone.

That's the way it should be.

 

[Tim Nelson]

High seniority just means a bigger target on your back!

thats true but if you organize im not sure anything will matter other than finding another job or possibly transferring to atl.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The problem without a contract is that delta can fire people alot easier. In ord, someone with 30+ years hit an engine a couple months ago and fired him. High seniority means nothing. Just 1 mistake and you gone.

was this a laa, lus or dl guy? from what i've seen through the years at aa: if you lie, you get fired. now a days, with cameras all over, don't lie. tip over a deicing truck, you don't get fired. take a bottled water or an 'aa' umbrella off a plane, you get fired for stealing.

if dl starts firing people to get rid of seniority, the raises and PS would mean nothing - that may push the workforce to organize. it's bad business and you may hire someone much worse.

 

[Kev3188]

That's the way it should be.

Even if it’s a legitimate accident? What if it’s due to defective equipment?

thats true but if you organize im not sure anything will matter other than finding another job or possibly transferring to atl.

It’s possible-I know there’s case law and precedent that support it- but I’m not sure they’d go nuclear. We’re very productive, and they really like keeping up appearances

 

[Tim Nelson]

Even if it’s a legitimate accident? What if it’s due to defective equipment?



It’s possible-I know there’s case law and precedent that support it- but I’m not sure they’d go nuclear. We’re very productive, and they really like keeping up appearances

i agree about the productivity but then again our catering, deicing, and mechanic work is productive but management wants it.
I have zero hope in management and although i wish the best for ya, i think Delta is just putting pressure on Parker. After we sign our contract, i think delta starts painful cuts.

 

[NYer]

But still it’s like old time said the company offers so much are as with the pay cuts they were. Told how much twu had to give back, so we amts took a bigger hit . Sick time at first was the first 2 days was half pay each occurrence. Now down to one day each now. So even though we vote on our own the twu still determines our piece of the pie. Was hoping that our second bk contract would of failed the pilots did the judge told the company and pilots to try to work it out on there own so the pilots got more back. We are our own worst enemy we have to many mechanics who believe the twu scare tactics. If you don’t vote it in the judge will take more. Well it didn’t happen that way with the pilots. I thank Nyer if it was reversed and the mechanics had the bigger work group you guys would feel the same way.

No. We wouldn't. It is the members that vote for their CBA. It is easy to blame everyone else around but the bottom line is that we vote it in. If we and the majority don't vote for something, then it doesn't pass. If the majority doesn't like the contents then they can vote against it and the mechanics did in 2012, but they left themselves open to the abrogation of their CBA.

In the end, all unions in the AMR BK had to cut 17% of their deal, including the APA. No one got a better deal than anyone else and the cuts came down to numbers and choices of where that value came from. It isn't the Fleet group that forced anyone to do anything. That may have been true in the past when the groups voted together, but now the mechanics have control of their own destiny.

 

[swamt]

Not talking about IAM negotiators. I'm talking about TWU negotiators. Fleet Service Clerks are in charge of AMT negotiations for TWU.

That has to change.

Associations job just got tougher.

I agree.
Congrats to the Delta guys on their pay 3% pay raises and 15% increases on shift diff's.
Kev, where will that put a topped out mechanic at? Somewhere close to $52??

 

[swamt]

Finger pointing? Was the TWU responsible for "Negotiating" the 2003 debacle? Was and is the TWU Airtransport Division dominated by Fleet? I was there and I am still living under the concessions. We had a meeting with Jim Little and when he was asked why AMTs were being forced more concessions than others he claimed everyone got the same. When it was pointed out that not only did we take a higher pay cut but lost longevity and sick pay too he again claimed we all lost the same. Then when it was asked why we had to give up sick pay he said they wanted to take our license pay. Since we are the only ones with licenses and no other group has them we were on the hook for that value along with the other concessions. So no we did not all lose the same. It is what it is and what is done is done. I am not wanting that to happen again where the AMTs get hosed and the TWU tries to say we didn't. I'm sure if we were offered full sick pay like you never lost though you would want equal value even though you never lost it right? That is part of the problem. We should get everything back that Fleet never lost before anyone else gets a single thing. And since you didn't have to give it up we should not have to give something up to get it. If you disagree with that then that is Exhibit A on why we need to separate. Are you going to agree that we should get sick pay and longevity without Fleet getting something of equal value? I didn't think so.

Let me make this clear.... AMTs need to accept some blame also for not getting away when we had the chance. Although the TWU got help from the company and then from the Teamsters and the company we still should have gotten it done. One thing that we tend to forget about is that even if we were in separate unions we could and would help each other. If Fleet set up a picket line we would honor it just like you would honor ours. As I said we have different issues that affect us and different ideas on what is and isn't most important. As much as I disagree and as much as I do not like being in the association or the TWU I would still fight for you guys in Fleet and do what I had to do as a union man. I can't change the present situation and so I can only give my opinion on what I think would be a better one. I honestly think it would benefit both groups. Again just my opinion.

Very well said sir. I still hope you guys can go with a class and craft union at AA for the mechanics. Looks like you guys do have a class and craft attorney working the relationship between the mechanics and management over there too...

 

[CremaDiLimone]

If so thats at least 32$ for us add differential If you get it close to 32.50-33 it would pass even with all th BS attached.

let's see..

dl - $31.04/hr not counting differential on 10-1-18

ua - $31.23/hr not counting differential on 12-1-18

$32.50/hr on DOS with the same crappy PS sounds like a bargain for the world's largest airline.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Very well said sir. I still hope you guys can go with a class and craft union at AA for the mechanics. Looks like you guys do have a class and craft attorney working the relationship between the mechanics and management over there too...

why havent the majority of mx at AA not considered an in house union like our stews and pilots have? Not sure how amfa, ibt, would b any different than the Ass.

 

[Kev3188]

i agree about the productivity but then again our catering, deicing, and mechanic work is productive but management wants it.
I have zero hope in management and although i wish the best for ya, i think Delta is just putting pressure on Parker. After we sign our contract, i think delta starts painful cuts.

I actually thought that’s why we went over $30 in the first place. Obviously, I hope you’re wrong, but think you’re right.

That has to change.



I agree.
Congrats to the Delta guys on their pay 3% pay raises and 15% increases on shift diff's.
Kev, where will that put a topped out mechanic at? Somewhere close to $52??

I think so? I’ll have to look.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I actually thought that’s why we went over $30 in the first place. Obviously, I hope you’re wrong, but think you’re right.



I think so? I’ll have to look.

admittedly im biased as Sito is always wanting to swing a deal his way that has made life hell for all freshly organized. You guys ever think of an independent?

 

[cltrat]

Tim. All i asked for was simple proof. The truth is none of us. Not even Baskett nor Rez know how all this end up.

he doesn’t have any. He has an opinion just like you and I the difference is he has a clear agenda.
Yet some here get on his jock like he’s some yoda.