American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[ALUS78]

Ok Mr ego smart guy,
By some miracle you’re in there instead of Sito, AA looks at you and says fk you Nelson no way in hell are you ever going get LUS healthcare and 7% percent 401 match is as good as it gets.those are dealbreakers for us.so what’s the plan then bigtime? You got all the criticism where’s your solution let’s hear it.otherwise you’re all hat and no cattle.

Tim has an awesome set of tools he can fix it

 

[NYer]

The TWU didn't bother to put Me Too clauses in the AMT contract as they did the Fleet. But again I never blamed any Fleet Service Clerk for the situation we're in. I blamed the TWU and their ATD which is controlled by Fleet Service people. The only thing I blame you for is continuing to push the TWU International lies.

The "me too" was about the total percentage to be cut, not individual pieces. The "ask" received by everyone was for a 20% cut. The Fleet TA had the 20% cut, but when that was cut to 17%, all the groups had their CBA value cut by the same percentage.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I guess the fact that each group has their own negotiating committee, is irrelevant.

In BK, Fleet ratified their CBA while the AMT's didn't is also irrelevant.

Finally, I guess it's also irrelevant that only AMT's can vote for their CBA.

On the other hand, I'm sure there convenient conspiracy theories involved.

So if the TWU International negotiates all contracts why did they not at least negotiate for the AMTs to keep sick pay and longevity? The lead negotiator for us was a former Fleet Service Clerk. That is what you are conveniently ignoring. Yeah we voted on our own contracts but ours was more concessionary than yours. This was, is and always is wrong. We did not do it to ourselves the TWU International did it to us and told us that was the best we could get. When we asked why we still had to give up sick and longevity they claimed they fought for us to get one out of two days paid and that was a big win. So again I ask why was it so easy to keep the stuff for Fleet but not for AMTs? But you know why. My beef (Again) is not with any Fleet Service Clerk. The rank and file do not set union policy and only vote on their own contracts. My beef is with the TWU International which just so happens to have all former Fleet Service Clerks in the ATD who couldn't care less about AMTs. We tried to get away and were punished for that. Simple.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ok Mr ego smart guy,
By some miracle you’re in there instead of Sito, AA looks at you and says fk you Nelson no way in hell are you ever going get LUS healthcare and 7% percent 401 match is as good as it gets.those are dealbreakers for us.so what’s the plan then bigtime? You got all the criticism where’s your solution let’s hear it.otherwise you’re all hat and no cattle.

Healthcare is a deal breaker. Catering is a deal breaker. Loosening the part time cap is a deal breaker. Reducing any scope is a deal breaker. Obviously, the company proposal is ridiculous. I suppose Sito said the same. The difference is that Sito will eliminate the part time cap, move over to LAA healthcare, and loosen scope. We know this because he has done it before 100% of the time in JCBA talks, even when it was just the IAM and not TWU persuasion. Sito is cuffed until at least his election. With cuffs on Sito, we won't have to worry about what Sito will do until April 2019.

And no matter what he tells you, the IAM pension is a deal breaker for him but not me. Our members benefit by getting out of the IAM Pension and into a lucrative 401k. You may disagree but I'd give us all a one time choice. Some may pick IAM pension, I and others will pick 401k. As IP there is virtually nothing I can do with our pension trustees since the pension is already toast. So, I'm not claiming I can fix the inherent problems of the pension. It's just a wickedly sad situation that will hose all of us and other union members in multi employer plans.

What will I do to get the company to agree to the things above? Well, last I heard, we have everything I just mentioned, except the 401k. We have the leading industry contract already as it inherited the position as other unions caved in for bonus', buyouts, and more dues. Scope, Health care, part time caps are 3 pillars.

 

[NYer]

So if the TWU International negotiates all contracts why did they not at least negotiate for the AMTs to keep sick pay and longevity? The lead negotiator for us was a former Fleet Service Clerk. That is what you are conveniently ignoring. Yeah we voted on our own contracts but ours was more concessionary than yours. This was, is and always is wrong. We did not do it to ourselves the TWU International did it to us and told us that was the best we could get. When we asked why we still had to give up sick and longevity they claimed they fought for us to get one out of two days paid and that was a big win. So again I ask why was it so easy to keep the stuff for Fleet but not for AMTs? But you know why. My beef (Again) is not with any Fleet Service Clerk. The rank and file do not set union policy and only vote on their own contracts. My beef is with the TWU International which just so happens to have all former Fleet Service Clerks in the ATD who couldn't care less about AMTs. We tried to get away and were punished for that. Simple.

The International doesn't negotiate the contracts, that was done by the Local Presidents. AMT's didn't keep their sick pay and longevity because they decided that cut may be better than something else.

Why the decision was made to cut the SK days to 50%, I don't know, but that was included in the AMT BK TA and was passed. By that time, the Fleet TA had already been ratified. As a matter of fact, I believe the Stores & MCT guys also avoided the 50%.

At the time, the Local AMT Presidents negotiated their CBA's and had an AMT as their International Rep as well as the AA System Director was an AMT. Fleet was nowhere near any of that, so you can continue to blame FSC's but at some point there won't be any bodies left to point that finger towards.

 

[Tim Nelson]

and another thing cltrat, we have to end this association. its goin to end up hosing all of us in another year as the twu has different interest. The twu and iam should work out which crafts each gets. One should get fleet, one should get mx.

 

[AANOTOK]

We still negotiate as two unions.
We still represent as two unions
We still demonstrate as two unions.
We still communicate as two unions.
And if a JCBA was brought up for a vote, we would vote as two unions.

Why not just keep two unions...and put something out there for a vote.
Who is afraid, and of what?

 

[B737 driver]

We still negotiate as two unions.
We still represent as two unions
We still demonstrate as two unions.
We still communicate as two unions.
And if a JCBA was brought up for a vote, we would vote as two unions.

Why not just keep two unions...and put something out there for a vote.
Who is afraid, and of what?

What happens if they reject a JCBA?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

The International doesn't negotiate the contracts, that was done by the Local Presidents. AMT's didn't keep their sick pay and longevity because they decided that cut may be better than something else.

Why the decision was made to cut the SK days to 50%, I don't know, but that was included in the AMT BK TA and was passed. By that time, the Fleet TA had already been ratified. As a matter of fact, I believe the Stores & MCT guys also avoided the 50%.

At the time, the Local AMT Presidents negotiated their CBA's and had an AMT as their International Rep as well as the AA System Director was an AMT. Fleet was nowhere near any of that, so you can continue to blame FSC's but at some point there won't be any bodies left to point that finger towards.

Jim Little and the ATD staff gave away all our stuff. It was the International that decided who would give up what. Ask Bob Owens. The local presidents weren't even in the room when the International and company were making the deal. They literally locked them out. The next morning the International dropped the TA on the table and told the locals to bring it back and sell it. Of course they also claimed a layoff if it didn't pass and also that AA would file BK and we'd be thrown to the wolves. We never had a say on what we were willing to give up at all. Little decided what he would give them without any input. Maybe your local presidents did the negotiating but ours were not allowed to. Ask Bob Owens. We should have split from the TWU right after that but we didn't get enough cards signed. That falls directly on AMTs so you are correct when you say it is entirely our fault we are still in the TWU. It is the TWU's fault for not representing us. It is not your fault or any Fleet Service Clerk. But the TWU international does not care about AMTs and that is obvious. They really don't care about Fleet either but since you guys have the majority they will at least not hose you as bad. They really only care about bus drivers.

 

[AANOTOK]

What happens if they reject a JCBA?

Dude, I have zero answers for you. What if they don't offer. What if we go to section 6. What if LUS medical is left but deicing is gone. I have no answers to anything. The Association got us into this mess we can do nothing but wait.

 

[NYer]

Jim Little and the ATD staff gave away all our stuff. It was the International that decided who would give up what. Ask Bob Owens. The local presidents weren't even in the room when the International and company were making the deal. They literally locked them out. The next morning the International dropped the TA on the table and told the locals to bring it back and sell it. Of course they also claimed a layoff if it didn't pass and also that AA would file BK and we'd be thrown to the wolves. We never had a say on what we were willing to give up at all. Little decided what he would give them without any input. Maybe your local presidents did the negotiating but ours were not allowed to. Ask Bob Owens. We should have split from the TWU right after that but we didn't get enough cards signed. That falls directly on AMTs so you are correct when you say it is entirely our fault we are still in the TWU. It is the TWU's fault for not representing us. It is not your fault or any Fleet Service Clerk. But the TWU international does not care about AMTs and that is obvious. They really don't care about Fleet either but since you guys have the majority they will at least not hose you as bad. They really only care about bus drivers.

Oh! Well if Bob says so.

All the boogeymen are gone so I guess you guys will recover everything now.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jim Little and the ATD staff gave away all our stuff. It was the International that decided who would give up what. Ask Bob Owens. The local presidents weren't even in the room when the International and company were making the deal. They literally locked them out. The next morning the International dropped the TA on the table and told the locals to bring it back and sell it. Of course they also claimed a layoff if it didn't pass and also that AA would file BK and we'd be thrown to the wolves. We never had a say on what we were willing to give up at all. Little decided what he would give them without any input. Maybe your local presidents did the negotiating but ours were not allowed to. Ask Bob Owens. We should have split from the TWU right after that but we didn't get enough cards signed. That falls directly on AMTs so you are correct when you say it is entirely our fault we are still in the TWU. It is the TWU's fault for not representing us. It is not your fault or any Fleet Service Clerk. But the TWU international does not care about AMTs and that is obvious. They really don't care about Fleet either but since you guys have the majority they will at least not hose you as bad. They really only care about bus drivers.

im guessing that the prefunding will b a disappointment and section 6 insomuch that you will have more support soon enuf especially if they/you set up a gofundme.
imo the iam and twu need to pick a craft. As iam im comfortable with our contract, considering all the chit contracts Sito has signed but not sure why laa mx would support our position. Ill give Alex Garcia and Gary Petersen points for blowing smoke at you guys to keep you content at standstill.

 

[1AA]

Dude, I have zero answers for you. What if they don't offer. What if we go to section 6. What if LUS medical is left but deicing is gone. I have no answers to anything. The Association got us into this mess we can do nothing but wait.

No, we as members got us into this mess. We had plenty of opportunities to avoid the association and dump the TWU. We failed ourselves.

 

[Tim Nelson]

No, we as members got us into this mess. We had plenty of opportunities to avoid the association and dump the TWU. We failed ourselves.

it didnt help that the ibt hoodwinked and knifed laa mx. i cant believe some mx still want ibt. ibt is just awful.

 

[cltrat]

Healthcare is a deal breaker. Catering is a deal breaker. Loosening the part time cap is a deal breaker. Reducing any scope is a deal breaker. Obviously, the company proposal is ridiculous. I suppose Sito said the same. The difference is that Sito will eliminate the part time cap, move over to LAA healthcare, and loosen scope. We know this because he has done it before 100% of the time in JCBA talks, even when it was just the IAM and not TWU persuasion. Sito is cuffed until at least his election. With cuffs on Sito, we won't have to worry about what Sito will do until April 2019.

And no matter what he tells you, the IAM pension is a deal breaker for him but not me. Our members benefit by getting out of the IAM Pension and into a lucrative 401k. You may disagree but I'd give us all a one time choice. Some may pick IAM pension, I and others will pick 401k. As IP there is virtually nothing I can do with our pension trustees since the pension is already toast. So, I'm not claiming I can fix the inherent problems of the pension. It's just a wickedly sad situation that will hose all of us and other union members in multi employer plans.

What will I do to get the company to agree to the things above? Well, last I heard, we have everything I just mentioned, except the 401k. We have the leading industry contract already as it inherited the position as other unions caved in for bonus', buyouts, and more dues. Scope, Health care, part time caps are 3 pillars.

That’s all well and good on paper but I think they’d look over their glasses and say we’ll give you 3% over DL and you can keep catering on those couple cities that have ,if that don’t work for then we’ll see you in arbitration.
Then what?